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Post Info TOPIC: No.3 (Bomber) Group RAF Bomber Command


Flight Lieutenant

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Posts: 49
Date:
RE: No.3 (Bomber) Group RAF Bomber Command
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Hi Irene,

The information about four crew in the aircraft was passed on to P/O Williams via people in underground.
It was later discovered that there were five crew killed in the crash, but not until after the war was over.

This is from a report from the MRES;

No.5 MRES
7 September 1945.
I called at the Municipal Hall, where I saw a clerk named Mr. Lansen, who remembered the crash, but he took me
to a Mr Uilenreef, who had visited the crash. Mr. Uilenreef told me that it was not possible to ascertain wether there
was the remains of four or five bodies in the aircraft after it had crashed, owing to the fire.

There was also confusion over the graves. It seems there were three bodies in one grave, but only the name Picton inscribed
on the cross.
I'm a bit reluctant to go into too much detail, as I don't want to upset anyone.


Wayne.





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Corporal

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Hi Wayne

Thanks for all that information, if you would contact us through email, and give us more information, as this would not upset us. my email address is Irene@MyDawkins.co.uk

Many thanks Irene



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Corporal

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Hi AW

Thanks for that information,but what do those numbers represent, and where do we find more information on them.

 

Regards Irene



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AW


Air Commodore

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Irene,

          They are the National Archive reference numbers for the Evasion reports for the two airmen concerned. I've sourced one of them (Williams) for you from their online service, and will send it to you via your email address.

Alan



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AlanW



Corporal

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Hi Alan

 

Thanks for that, I will look forward to the email. 
Palamountains number is 3327-3015, if this is some help to you.

 

Regards Irene



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Corporal

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Hi Wayne

On your last note, you were reluctant to go into too much detail.  My husband would really like to know those details as it would go towards our family history.  If you would email me with the information, we would ensure it is NOT pasted to anyone else.  My email address is Irene@MyDawkins.co.uk. Many thanks



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Flight Lieutenant

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Hi Irene,

Sorry for the delay in answering.

I'll send an email shortly, with scans for you.

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Corporal

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Hi Wayne

Thanks will look forward to the email, thanks again

 

Regards Irene



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Corporal

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Dear Smudger

 

Is it possible we could have a copy of Operational Records for LL678, 514 Squadron, for January to July 1944.   If you have anyother information regarding this flight of crew members, it would also help us.

 

Regards Irene & Don



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Flight Sergeant

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Wayne, do you by chance have an MRES file for HK594, 29/30th August 1944, covering the three posted missing and three buried at Palsjo? F/S DAS King was, as you'll know, the only survivor. I'm not sure if the MRES or MREU operated in Sweden.

And Smudger, is there any AIR50 for the Stettin raids on the same date? I'm hoping there might have been a report where the crew mention seeing HK594 being hit.

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Flight Lieutenant

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Hello Jake,

I don't think I have anything for HK594, but I'll check my messy files and notes.

Wayne.

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Flight Sergeant

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Hi Smudger,

As the date of our gathering at Mepal approaches (August 29th 2012) to commemorate the loss of six of the crew of HK594 sixty years ago to the day, I'm still looking for any relevant information on the MRES files which may have been listed for F/Sgt D King, the sole survivor.

Doug King was the pilot and successfully made his exit after the crew, except for the tail gunner, got out. Doug landed safely and was interned and I feel sure that a report will exist. 

Can you help?



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Flight Sergeant

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Hi Smudger
hopefully you might see this, though a bit later than your original posting of this thread........

In discussion with my Fathers Nav from 1943 during the summer, he clarified the circumstances surrounding the cessation of their tour after 21 ops.

Originally I had thought the decision had been made at Squadron level. In actual discussion with Jack it would appear that an order was sent from 3 Group HQ that theirs and another crew were to be screened immediately for purposes of moral in the Squadron information received from elsewhere suggests there may have been an issue regarding the C/Os press on regardless attitude at the time and that even perhaps the New Zealand High Commisioner Bill Jordan might have directly intervened regarding the high losses and late conversion from Stirlings to Lancasters that 75(NZ) experienced.

Is there anything in your records relating to this - I know its a long shot, but always a chance.....

As always, many thanks in advance

Simon


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Hux


Aircraftsman 1st Class

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Hi I am new to the group and was wondering where I can find the ORB for 623 sqdn from the dates 14 August to 1 September 1943. My cousin was a Pilot Officer with the group and was lost on a raid to Berlin 31/1september 43. he was in a sterling mk 3 seriel no EE949. Any help would be appreciated, his name was Ellis Edward Huxter.



-- Edited by Hux on Friday 21st of September 2012 12:25:26 PM

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dave stewart
AW


Air Commodore

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Hi,

This crew were posted in to 623sqdn on 18th Aug 43, and were on their 3rd op when they went missing. The first two ops were "Gardening trips on 24th to Nectarines area, and 25th Aug to Deodars area. The captain of this crew, Fl/Sgt O.J. Tanner, was flying a 2nd Dickie trip with his own crew,  under W/C  E.J. Little on the Berlin op of 31st Aug when lost. Can send scans of ORB pages if you can let me have your email address via my whiteboard in my profile.

Alan. 



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AlanW



Squadron Leader

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Hux,

 

Please contact me off board in regards to No.623 Squadron.

 

Regards


Steve



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No.218 (Gold Coast) Squadron Association Historian

judith Hoyle

Date:
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Hi Kate,

My uncle was also killed on Lancaster AP-J, PB 488 on the 14th April 1945. Returning to Stradishall after night bombing raid on Keil. The crew were Pilot F/O D. Roberts,  F/S G. Whally,

Nav F/S J. James (your uncle),  F/S C.Crookes, W/OP W.Roberts, A/G sgt H. Brickell (my uncle), A/G sgt F.Pope. No survivors.

 My uncle was 25yrs old and left a young wife and baby son. He was from Heaton Norris, Stockport, Cheshire. I remember my mum telling me ( he was her elder brother)That he had just been home on leave and had told them " Don't worry the war is as good as over, there's nothing left to bomb" To be killed so close to the end of the war after they had been through so much was a terrible tradgedy. He is burried in an R.A.F grave in Stockport cemetary.

I hope this little bit of information is of interest to you. They will always be remembered especially at this time of year.

 

Best rgds

Judith



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Anonymous

Date:
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Hello!

 

Upon researching my Great Uncle Harry McClements, I came across your post, I've found a great deal about his 7 Squadron/ PB667 so I thought I'd get in touch

Liana Morris



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Elizabeth Worbey (nee Branch)

Date:
RE: No.3 (Bomber) Group RAF Bomber Command - p/o Smith
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Just in case - my father Charles Branch was based in Tuddenham 1944  in an Air Crew (rear Gunner) who flew missions in LM615 Lancaster IIIB and his Pilot Officer was R.F.Smith (wife was Eileen a wren). Is this your p/o Smith? 



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Aircraftsman 1st Class

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RE: No.3 (Bomber) Group RAF Bomber Command
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There was a Pilot in my Dad's crew Reg F.Smith No.1157663 who flew mostly a Lancaster IIIB LM615 from Tuddenham 90 Sqdrn during the period May - Sep 1944.I think he was posted in from 622 Sqdrn. He married a Wren Eileen O. Newman at Winchester (4th Qtr 1944) and survived circa 30 missions.My Dad was Charles Branch Rear Gunner.I have more detail but this may not be the "Smith" pilot you are searching about.

Rgds Buffy



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Andrea Hayward

Date:
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Hi Smudger,

I am keeping everything crossed that among your outstanding array of info that you may something about my granddad, Sgt Kenneth Hayward. I know he started off as a pilot flying Whitleys then went onto Wellingtons and Lancasters. He sadly passed away 1991 and my dad in 1996 so not much information has been passed on.

 

thank you so much, this means a lot to me being able to piece together his sorties. So proud of him and all the brave men of Bomber Command.

 

Andrea Hayward



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Corporal

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Can anyone say please- what number of ops a 3 Group bomber crew would have to complete-c before being tour expired c.March 1945


cunliffe




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K king



Squadron Leader

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You do ask some difficult questions !!!

 

Again there is no real answer, I have crews who finished in March 1945 on 38 op's on their first tour, I have other crews who stopped on 30, while I know of one crew who were screened on 28. It all depends on the C/O at the time. There was no definite 30 cut-off on 3 Group to my knowledge.

Steve



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No.218 (Gold Coast) Squadron Association Historian



Corporal

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Thank you Steve-why I did ask -was because my uncle (90 Sqdn) completed 44 Ops before screening-his regular pilot and crew were screened at 41; but he had to make up three ops he missed through illness at Xmas44-making his final total 44. As you say it seemed to be pretty arbitrary.

cunliffe

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K king

Trevor Dee

Date:
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Smudger,

 

I am looking for information ofr sorties flown by 195 sqn between Novemember 1944 and March 1945, it was my friends fathers 2nd tour we have his log book but not much information for the targets, just where they were.

Hopefully you can help me.

Mob is 07779245149.

Ta



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Corporal

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I realise this may sound puerile, but Bomber Command War Diaries does give some details- if you know the when and where


cunliffe



-- Edited by cunliffe on Saturday 27th of July 2013 01:58:30 PM

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K king

Simon

Date:
Permalink   

Hi there,

I am hoping you can help with some information regarding details of a relative of my wife (second cousin) and the incident in which he died.  This is the information I know so far:

Sgt David Armstrong Service No. 1795827 Air Gunner on board Lancaster Code KO-Y Serial HK550 of 115 Sqn at RAF Witchford.  The mission on which he died involved a raid on the railways yards of Lens and Valenciennes on the night of 15/16 Jun 1944 during which 11 aircraft were lost, including Sgt Armstrongs.  He is buried in Oisy-le-Verger Communal Cemetery.  Other members of the crew were:

Fg Off Peter Anaka RCAF who survived.  (Book written about him - The One Hundredth Airman)

Fg Off Allister Morder (also seen as Morden) RCAF, also survived.

Fg Off Robert Leckie RCAF killed.  Buried in Oisy-le-Verger Communal Cemetery.

Sgt Owen Hughes RCAF killed.  Buried in Oisy-le-Verger Communal Cemetery.

Sgt Richard Thomas killed.  Buried in Oisy-le-Verger Communal Cemetery.

Sgt Cyril Fieldhouse killed. Commemorated on Runnymede Memorial.

Am trying to find out more about David Armstrong, his history and the circumstances surrounding his death - how, where, why the aircraft crashed. 

Would really appreciate any assistance, thank you

Simon



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AW


Air Commodore

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This aircraft was tasked to the railway yards at Valenciennes, and crashed at Oisy-le-Verger. Anaka and Morder both evaded, but there is no known report for them at this time. Bomb load of 16 x 500lb GP, and 2 x 500lb MC.

Can't find this crew beyond 30th May, so looks like they were on their 5th op with 115, when they were lost.

 

30th May, Boulogne.

2nd June, Wissant.

5th June, Ouistreham.

14th June, Le Havre.

Also cannot find a 2nd Dicky trip for experience, for Anaka, so possible, that this crew were posted in from another squadron.



-- Edited by AW on Tuesday 30th of July 2013 01:40:45 AM



-- Edited by AW on Tuesday 30th of July 2013 01:42:47 AM

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AlanW

Anonymous

Date:
Permalink   

Thank you book ordered, another fine addition to my collection.

 

Regards Trevor



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Simon

Date:
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Thanks AW for that extra information about HK550 crew.  Interesting that there is nothing prior to 30 May for this crew, wonder where they came from?

 

Ive since found out that the a/c was likely shot down by a nightfighter - Oblt. Werner Hopf of 8/NJG5 at 0044 local between Douai and Denain at a height of 2500m.  In addition, F/O Morder appears to be Allister Grant Morden of Morden, Manitoba in Canada (his Great Granfather Alvey Morden founded the town).

Still wondering how the pilot (Anaka) and bomb aimer (Morden) survived and evaded capture, 5 were killed but one of them (Cyril Fieldhouse) appears to be lost and is commemorated on the Runnymede memorial whilst the other 4 are buried together at Oisy-le-Verger Communal Cemetery.

 

Simon



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AW


Air Commodore

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Simon,

              Reference number for Anaka's Evasion file at N/A, is WO208/3350-1276, there is no known file for Morden.

Alan



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AlanW

Simon

Date:
Permalink   

Thanks for the extra info Alan.  Is it possible to view the E&E records somehow?   Wonder if there is no record for Morden because he could be listed as Morder??

What about Sqn Operational Records - is it possible to view these and if so what info would they contain?  Sorry for all the questions, new to all this!!

Am keen to continue my research into David Armstrong, his history and the details regarding the incident on 15/16 Jun 44 when he died but not sure where to look?

Simon



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AW


Air Commodore

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Simon,

             For Anaka's E/Evasion file, all you need to do is go online to N/A website, and request a copy of it, via their Record Copying service. There is no trace of a file for Morden or Morder in any official list that i've seen. The Squadron ORB, is in two parts, the 540, (Summary of Events) is a short, day to day diary, of events taking place, such as, news of operations, postings, promotions, etc. The 541 (Details of Work Carried Out) contains, crew lists, aircraft serials, targets, descriptions of the attacks, by individual aircrew, take off and return times, bomb loads (sometimes). It will not give any details on the loss of an aircraft, other than stating "missing" next to the aircraft concerned. 

Alan 



-- Edited by AW on Saturday 3rd of August 2013 12:27:48 AM

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AlanW



Aircraftsman 1st Class

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I am new to the forum but have been accumulating ORBs for 514 Squadron as well as other material as I am writing a history of the squadron. I'd very much like to make contact with others with links to 514.



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Anonymous

Date:
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Hi was it you I sent a photograph of Adrian Colebrook Brace my friend's cousin from 218 Gold Coast Squadron if so could you give me the link to your web page. I was in contact with someone called Steve

Jane Thomas is very keen to talk to someone about 218 Gold Coast Squadron if that is possible

Thank you

Una

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Tracey Norman

Date:
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My father Clive Theodore was a member I think , Does anyone have any information please? Regards



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Anonymous

Date:
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Hi Smudgersmith

 

not sure if you are able to help but am trying to get more details about my uncle John Sidney Ludford born 1922 who was a pilot in WW2 with Squadron 57. I did find a couple of Gazette records regarding his bravery on sorties into enemy territory but what I'd like to find out is where he trained and whether there are any photos available about him and his squadron. Sadly, despite surviving the war he died crop spraying in the Cape in South Africa in 1953 and is buried in Maitland Cemetery.

I haven't much luck trying to look online at National Archives records; it seems to me one has to physically go into the Archives to see anything. Is that the case?Regards



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AW


Air Commodore

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J. Ludford. Pilot.

M. Stoneham. F/Eng.

R. Watson. Nav.

E.B. Woodbridge. B/Aimer.

J. Bosomworth. W/Op

F. Fox. A/G

W.R. Saigeon. A/G.

J. Ludford and crew, posted in to 57sqdn 20th Oct 43, and up to end of Dec 43, did 7 ops, five of which were to Berlin, the other two, to Leipzig and Frankfurt.

18/11, Berlin.

2/12, Berlin.

3/12, Leipzig.

16/12, Berlin.

20/12, Frankfurt.

23/12, Berlin.

29/12, Berlin.

I only have the 57sqdn ORB up to December 43 at the moment, so cannot help beyond that.

Alan.






-- Edited by AW on Thursday 2nd of January 2014 09:16:26 AM

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AlanW

Paul Withington

Date:
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Hi Smudge,

                    I have very recently purchased a DFC medal group to Flt. Lt. R G Gaisford who was a wireless operator with 90 squadron and to my knowledge flew in both Stirling and Lancasters through 1943-44. Gaisford have an eventful time so it appears, being shot down in April 1943 when he was a Sgt and evading capture, returned to the UK with the help of the French Underground in June 1943. His DFC was gazetted the following year by which time he had been commissioned. I would be grateful if you or any of your readers had any photo's of this man or any information whatsoever. Apparently he survived the war and worked as a cartoonist, signining his works as "Gais" for some big name newspapers until his death in 1963. I can be contacted at withington2@btinternet.com if anyone can help. Regards, Paul Withington.



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Anonymous

Date:
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Hi Paul,

 

I have a copy of Flt. Lt. R G Gaisford Escape and Evasion Report ( which is the briefest I have ever seen ). If you want a copy please let me know.

 

Kind regards

 

Steve



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Paul Withington

Date:
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Steve,

               that would be brilliant, thank you. How would you send it, via my email address? If you need any others details then please let me know. Thanks again.  Paul

 



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Aircraftsman 1st Class

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Date:
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smudgersmith wrote:

In return I will be happy to try and answer any questions, you will see that I have collected a wealth of information over the years and Im more than willing to help ANYONE regards of Group. !!!!!


 Hello, I'm French, I'm living at Le Havre (Upper Normandy). I'm looking for reports of Le Havre bombing in September 1944 for the "Astonia" Operation. I knew that the No. 3 (Bomber) Group participated to it with Nos. 1 and 8 Group too. In France, we have just the civilian's accounts in some books. Can you help me please ?



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Stewart Moakler

Date:
RE: No.3 (Bomber) Group RAF Bomber Command Squadrons 90 and 514
Permalink   


Hello,

So pleased to find this site and see it is still 'live'. Recently discovered my dad's wartime logbook which I thought was lost forever. I'm tracing his wartime career. He was in both 90 and 514 squadrons during his tour of duty. His name was Patrick 'Jock' Moakler and he was an air gunner on Sterlings and Lancasters. I really don't know what would be best to ask for in what would appear to be a mountain of information you've accumulated. I am named after my dad's pilot through the war, a F/Lt Stewart who later became a Squadron Leader.

Thanks in anticipation

Stewart Moakler

 

e-mail address: stewarteroonie@yahoo.co.uk



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AW


Air Commodore

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Date:
RE: No.3 (Bomber) Group RAF Bomber Command
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Stewart,

               Can you give some dates with each squadron please.



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AlanW

Anonymous

Date:
Permalink   

By that was quick!

The dates are as follows:

90 Squadron RAF Tuddenham 5/3/44 - 8/5/44

514 Squadron RAF Waterbeach 3/6/44 - 18/7/44

He then was transferred to 1651 CU at RAF Wratting Common from 3/9/44 as an Air Gunner Instructor. This unit moved to RAF Woolfox Lodge and he finished the war there.

Thanks for the prompt reply.

Stewart Moakler



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AW


Air Commodore

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Posts: 256
Date:
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Hi,

       Reason i asked, is that i have the ORB for 90sqdn, but only up to Dec 43, so cannot help with that one. I do have a part copy of 514sqdn, which starts at July 44, through to 1945, which is also not much help, but i can let you have a copy if you want it. If so, let me have your email address,

Alan.



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AlanW

Anonymous

Date:
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Morning,

Thanks for your offer. It would be great to see anything from any times about the people and activities of his squadrons. My e-mail is : stewarteroonie@yahoo.co.uk

Again, many thanks. 

Stewart Moakler



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Glynis Hulley

Date:
Permalink   

Dear Kate,

 

My Uncle, Sgt. Harold Brickell was Rear Gunner on a Lancaster based at Stradishall. He was killed in a Mid Air collision returning from a bombing raid on Kiel (14th April1945)

 

 

 

 

 



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RB


Aircraftsman 1st Class

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Posts: 3
Date:
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Hi

i am currently trying to find service details etc about my uncle who was killed in a Sterling training accident at Waterbeach in March 1943 ... What further information may you be able to provide and how do I go about obtaining it please?

 

Thanks



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RB


Aircraftsman 1st Class

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Posts: 3
Date:
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Hi, I am trying to locate further information concerning my uncle (William Horsley 1198644who was (I believe) killed in an air training accident at Waterbeach on March 14th 1943 flying in a (famous) Sterling Mk 1 N6086 Any help / points in the right direction appreciated regards



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