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Post Info TOPIC: 166 Squadron RAF Kirmington help available to researchers


Leading Aircraftsman

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RE: 166 Squadron RAF Kirmington help available to researchers
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Wellington HE631, lost 3 Apr 1943 gardening in french coastal waters. No known graves, except Sgt Radbourne at Moelan-sur-Mer Communal Cemetery.



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Aircraftsman 1st Class

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Thanks for your information. Yes I am interested in anything you have regarding the flight crew. I have drawn a blank with Jack Stock and am unable to get a photo of him. My only outlet was my wife's uncle and he's sure he doesn't have a photo, but there must be one out there! Regards Alan

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Corporal

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Hi Quintrell, I hope you'll find the message I wrote yesterday on your white board. I'm looking forward to the prospect of getting in touch with Sergeant Thomas Luscombe's nephew, as I have with Sgt. Radbourne's nephew last summer. Thank you for acting on behalf of his family. Take care, Blackforest



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Corporal

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Alan,

( subject : Wellington HE 631, Sgt. Radbourne and crew - Jack STOCK, as far as you are concerned).

Would you be so kind as to let me know your e-mail address on my white board (I won't abuse) as there are some developments to this dossier which will not interest the other users of this forum ( I already made a few space-consuming blunders !) 

(If I am not mistaken, I wrote mine on your white board, you may use it any time you like)

Thank you, looking forward to more exchanges,

Cheers,

Black Forest 



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Group Captain

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Hello Quintrell,I would be pleased to hear from you regarding Luscombe (I started the thread offering help for 166 Squadron researchers).Email me direct (you can see my email address on some of the earlier replies on this thread).Cheers,B.

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Leading Aircraftsman

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HI BARNSLEY, ANY INFO ON FLT.LT.A.WREN OF RAF STATION KIRMINGTON WOULD BE MUCH APPRECIATED. I KNOW HE WAS THERE IN JANUARY 1945.  THANKS



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Group Captain

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Hello,I cant see a F/Lt Wren on the strength of 166 Squadron at that time.Was he attached to the Station Staff in which case I will look somewhere else in my records.B



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David Carswell

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Hello

My Late Father was flight sgt Robert Carswell he was a navigator in the lancs & flew a tour of 26 missions from mid 44 to early 45 we do have some records of his missions just wondered if any one remembers him or has any photos of him.

Best Wishes Dave Carswell



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Leading Aircraftsman

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HI AGAIN, THE ONLY THING I KNOW OF HIM IS THAT I HAVE HIS FLYING HELMET ( RANK AND NAME INSIDE ) AND THAT ALSO STAMPED INSIDE IS  - STATION HEADQUARTERS RAF STATION KIRMINGTON 15 JAN 1945.  THANKS FOR HAVING A LOOK AND HOPE THIS MAY HELP ID HIM.  REGARDS



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Anonymous

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I wondered if you had any info regarding flights my dad may have been on during the WW2, from doing some research and other bits I got the following but is doesnt make much sense to me:

 

21 Nov 1941 - Raf moreton-in-marsh 21 operational trg unit

 

24 Mar 1942 - Raf elgin moray -20 op trg unit

 

5 Jun 1942 - 84/43-no1 E.A.G.S

 

17 Apr 1943 -93/43-14ITW -raf bridlington -14 initial trg wing

 

11 Jun 1943 -  41/43-11ags - andreas airfield isle of man 11 air gunnery school

 

27 Jul 1943 - 129/42-29otu raf north luffenham 29operational trg unit

 

31 Oct 1943 - 257/43-1661 cu - 1661 heavy conversion unit

 

9 Nov 1943 - 166/43-admitted raf hosp rauceby(No.4 RAF Hospital Rauceby)

 

11 Apr 1944 - 67/44 61 sqn

 

11 Aug 1944 - 74/44-16otu-raf

 

I am thinking that the numbers at the start are squadron numbers but dont know what the other numbers mean!

 

I have searched the internet on bomber command website etc looking for info but going round in circles from growing up as a child all I can remember my dad telling me he was a Tail Gunner in the Lancaster bombers (one of the lucky ones that got back)

His name was Austin Gerard Harney and was 18 years old when he enlisted into the RAF in June 1941, sadly he passed away in 1989.

 

I would be so grateful if you could help or even point me in the right direction.



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AW


Air Commodore

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Hi,

      The numbers you refer to are the P.O.R (Personnel Occurance Report) references. Your father did not fly with 166sqdn, but with 61sqdn. As the  reference states, he was posted in to 61sqdn on 11/4/44, from 51 Base. Before that, he attended 21 OTU, 20 OTU, 1 Elementary Air Gunners School, 14 Initial Training Wing, 11 Air Gunners School, 29 OTU, and 1661 Conversion Unit. After being hospitalised, he was posted to 61sqdn, and flew his first operation on the 18th April to bomb Juvisy Marshalling Yards. His crew were....

F/O  W.E. Jeavons, pilot.

Sgt  W.J. Robe, F/E.

F/Sgt  W.A. Gow, Nav.

Sgt  C.W. Saunders, W/Op.

Sgt  J. Graham, A/B.

Sgt  G. Anslow, A/G, (Mid-Upper).

Sgt  A.G. Harney, A/G, (Rear Gunner)

If you would like to leave your email address on my whiteboard, in my profile, i will get back to you regarding further ops flown by his crew with 61sqdn, before being posted to 16 OTU in August 44.

Regards......Alan.



-- Edited by AW on Tuesday 1st of January 2013 02:47:57 PM



-- Edited by AW on Tuesday 1st of January 2013 02:49:45 PM

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AlanW



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RE: ROBERT CARSWELL ,NAVIGATOR.

David,email me direct on MJC41UK at YAhoo DoT CO DOT UK (all lower case).I have info on your Dad.B



-- Edited by barnsley on Friday 4th of January 2013 06:44:41 AM

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Aircraftsman 1st Class

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Hello Barnsley,

Is it possible to find out the number of mission my Uncle completed before he was killed.  He was Flight Engineer CG Thompson and was killed with all crew returning to Kirmington from Berlin on the night 16/17 December 1943, crashing to the North of the airfield. Lancaster Serial JB639 Pilot AE Brown.

Regards

Gordon Thompson



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Leading Aircraftsman

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Hi,I'm looking for the names of the farrington which my grandad served with. My family only remembers 4 names. They joined 166 sqd in march 1945. Any help would be gratefully accepted and would be the final price of the jigsaw.

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Leading Aircraftsman

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*crew

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klem

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Are you able to give me details of any Wellington that diverted to RAF Tangmere during the war? Presumably that would be during 1943? I would like to include it in a painting I am doing for the museum and it would be nice to include the aircraft letters.

Many thanks

klem



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AW


Air Commodore

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Simon...

F/Sgt  E. Farrington, pilot.

Sgt  J. Nimmo, F/E.

Sgt  J.G. Roberts, A/B.

Sgt  S.F. Allen, Nav.

Sgt  L.P. Carter, W/Op.

Sgt  G.W.W. Goodger, A/G. (Mid-Upper)

Sgt  A.W. Pea****, A/G (Rear)

Apparently, for some reason, the forum will not let me complete the last name, how strange !! but it's c.o.c.k



-- Edited by AW on Monday 7th of January 2013 10:27:27 AM



-- Edited by AW on Monday 7th of January 2013 10:29:27 AM

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AlanW



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RE C.G.THOMPSON.

Hello Gordon.I have quite a bit of info on your relatives crew (including pieces of the aircraft).If you get this message go to my whiteboard and email me direct.Barnsley



-- Edited by barnsley on Monday 7th of January 2013 11:18:42 AM

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Leading Aircraftsman

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Thank you very much Alan. Very much appreciated.

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Leading Aircraftsman

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Does anyone know if there is much left of raf kirmington? Plus what sort of of memorials etc are there at the airfield and village?

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Group Captain

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Kirmington is now Humberside Airport.There is a memorial in the village and memorabilia on the walls of the village pub 'The Marrow Bone and Cleaver' aka 'The Chopper'.



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Corporal

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Simon, In addition to Barnsley's reply, if you type "RAF Kirmington" in your browser, you'll get a choice of pages, sites and forums (with sometimes rather saddening infos. It looks as though this place has lost it's identity and magic). 



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Leading Aircraftsman

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Thanks for the info. It's sad to hear that it has lost its identity but I'm hoping to take some of my family to kirmington to see the memorial etc and to do it in memory of my grandad.its a shame that there isn't much of the old airfield left.

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D Hollingworth

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My mother's cousin was killed on3rd Aug 1943 and I have only found out today that his name is on the Runnymede memorial.I dont know any thing about where he was killed,what position he had on his Wellington or his fellow crew members.Mum always wondered what happened to him He was Bertram Stanley Harris he was 20 when he died and was in RAFVR.I.d also love info about RAF Kirmington

thanks



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Wing Commander

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D Hollingworth wrote:

My mother's cousin was killed on3rd Aug 1943 and I have only found out today that his name is on the Runnymede memorial.I dont know any thing about where he was killed,what position he had on his Wellington or his fellow crew members.Mum always wondered what happened to him He was Bertram Stanley Harris he was 20 when he died and was in RAFVR.I.d also love info about RAF Kirmington

thanks


 http://www.flensted.eu.com/19430078.shtml

 

Wellington X HE578 crashed in the North Sea 3/8-1943.


The aircraft belonged to RAF 166 Sqn Bomber Command and was coded AS-G.
T/O 00:26 Kirmington. OP: Gardening the Elbe estuary.


At 02:03 hours a radio call was received from HE578 asking for help. The position was fixed to 53`43N 02`45E. The Wellington must have crashed into the North Sea killing all onboard.

Pilot W/O Royce R. Burton was laid to rest in Lemvig cemetery late September 1943 apparently on 29/9 1943.

The body of Navigator/Air Bomber F/Sgt David E.M. Carson was found in the sea off Hansted and was laid to rest in Frederikshavn cemetery on 29/9 1943.

W/Op Sgt Bertram S.Harris, Air Gnr. James H. Connel and Air Gnr. Alan Ord have no known grave and are commemorated on the Runnymede Memorial.

Regards,

Dave



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Group Captain

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RE: Bertram Stanley HARRIS

Email me on mjc41uk at yahoo dot co dot uk.I have more info on the crew in my records.Thanks Dave for crash info.B

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Anonymous

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A neighbour of mine who is now over ninty flew Lancasters with 166 squadron, are you in touch with him as he may be able to give you more information. His name is Jack Blanchard.

Should you require more information e-mail me at f.nightingale@btinternet.com



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RAF 166 web site

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Would be interested in any 166 Squadron items, pictures, stories or grave markers.

I administer the 166 Squadron web site and would be honoured to include these types of items on the site.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~dswallow4/ any comments are always welcome.

Thanks



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Corporal

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I have some extended data material concerning the crash of the Wellington Mk X HE 631  Code AS-V,  4 april 1943,  off the south coast of Brittany. Pilot : Sergeant Arthur RADBOURNE, crewmates : ALDRIDGE, CARTER, LUSCOMBE, STOCK. I am still in a process of enquiry for even more infos, but if you want to check with me the nature and amount of data I can hand over to you (I have two personal photos), you can contact me direct at : djuray7@gmail.com

 

 

 



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Anonymous

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is this the lanc that crashed at barton upon humber



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Corporal

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Hi Anonymus,
does your last post concern the previous message from Blackforest ?
I am talking of a Vickers Wellington Bomber Mk X which crasched in the Atlantic Ocean south of Brittany, France.

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Aircraftsman 1st Class

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Good evening and am Hughie and I have just posted a request for information regarding my uncle, Flt/Sgt Hugh George Hill.

Sadly he passed away this weekend and I am giving a eulogy at his funeral next week; and am looking for any informatioamass his plane (call sign Zebra) was shot down on an operation tp Stuttgart on the 25th/26th July 1944. All the crew survived baling out and he was looked after by the French until the allieds came. 

I would be grateful for any information.

Hugh Emment



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Hugh Emment


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Hi Hughie, your uncle was the mid upper gunner in the John Cann crew.the whole crew got out of their lancaster and all evaded capture.They were hidden by the French Maquis and came back to the U.K with a returning SAS unit.They were on their last or 2nd to last op of their Tour and had hoped for a 'softer' Target than Stuttgart to finnish on.Alas not to be.Email me on mjc41uk AT yahoo DOT co DOT uk and I can give you more info.I knew John Cann his pilot.B



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Anonymous

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MY DAD WAS MID UPPER GUNNER  IN 166 SQUARDON  DOES ANYONE REMEMBER  HIM  A R CALDWELL  OTHER MEMBERS

PILOT A S SAUNDERS NAVIGATOR E A WILIAMS REAR GUNNER  SLEEPY HEAP MASCOT  TOBY



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Group Captain

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Yes Sgt Caldwell 1876964 RAF was the Mid Upper Gunner in the crew of P/O Saunders an Australian pilot.The crew arrived on 166 squadron on 3rd January 1945.They were in 'B' flight 166 Sqn. and completed 24 ops before the war ended.saunders (P),Bissett (FE),Gould (AB),Williams (NAV),Folkard (WOP),Heap (RG).Email me on MJC41UK at YAhoo dot co dot uk (all lower case) Cheers B



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Leading Aircraftsman

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hi,just wondering if any one had any photos of raf kirmington they could send me?
It would be very much appreciated.
Regards
Simonj

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Anonymous

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my uncle jack bayliss,an aussie was lost on mission over bochum mar 30,1943..in a wellington...any info about anyone who 

knew him appreciated..peter lacy ontario canada



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Group Captain

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Hello, F/Sgt Jack Baylis RAAF KILLED IN ACTION IN WELLINGTON x3965 CODED AS.'L Love'.Pilot Sgt Owen Collins.Crashed into Ijsselmeer 3km E.S.E of Marken at about 22.45 hrs.All crew killed.Shot down by Night Fighter.Crew on Runnymede memorial.

Email me direct on mjc41uk at yahoo dot co dot uk for more info.

Cheers

B



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Wing Commander

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Peter,

The Casualty Repatriation file on your uncle, held by the National Archives of Australia has not been digitized.

But the one for fellow crewman, 401744 F/Sgt Stanley Noel Curtis, has.

Go to www.naa.gov.au and enter "401744" in the search block. That wil take you to another window.

Click on the paper icon to view a 41 page report.

Regards,

Dave



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Flight Sergeant

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MR. BARNSLEY,

I am Kees Vermeer (Kees Gorinchem of the Shot Down Bomber Story) who initially thought my shot down bomber could have been the Lancaster bomber ND956.  As you can see from my postings, we are now looking for USAAF bomber losses over Holland but we do not know where to go.  The shot down bomber I observed in Gorinchem, Holland happened in broad daylight.

Kees & Rebecca Vermeer

------------ Forwarded message ------------
From: Rebecca Vermeer
Date: Mar 20, 2013
Subject: RE: My SHOT DOWN BOMBER
To: Johan Collee

Hi Johan,
YES, Johan, there are many twists and turns to my bomber story. But like all stories which are not recorded on the spot, they are based on memories. Memories are not accurate. Some memories last longer than others. For instance, I cannot remember what I ate for dinner 10 days ago. Can you? But if events make a strong impression on you, they may last for life.

Certain things I can remember well. The bomber came down in broad daylight. I saw parachutes --at least 2, probably more. I think one disappeared immediately. It went so quick, that I sometimes wonder if it really happened. At least 2 parachutes, perhaps more, floated down.

I think I was seated at the table with my family either for breakfast or lunch. When we heard the noise of a whining plane and explosions, my mother and I ran out of the house. My brother Jan and sister Ali perhaps ran to the upstairs balcony. We could not see the plane in front of our house, so we ran across the street to the neihbors' homes, from where we could see the bomber (direction Hoornaar). From that location we observed what happened. The bomber was going down, then the flak exploded. There may have been a German fighter which shot down the bomber. But if there was a German fighter plane, I did not see it, as I was still inside our house at that time. What I recall is that the flak started to explode all at once when the bomber came down. It seemed the flak was finishing the bomber. Perhaps the bomber was too high earlier for the flak to reach it. These details are not in my original story which I sent to our family.

You asked where the FLAK (anti-aircraft guns ) stood. I remember it well --it was about 1 km from our house in Gorinchem, at the end of the Mollenburgse road where it crosses the A15 Highway. The A15 was at the start of its construction. In the piled-up sand of the planned A15, the Germans had dug-in their anti-aircraft guns. The reason I recall it so well is that your mother (my sister Cato) was hesitant to pass there on her bike to Hoornaar. The anti-aircraft crew whistled at her each time she passed, and shouted something like
" Oh mein kleine Schwartzkopf!!" We teased her much about those incidents.

The latest account by Jan Springintveld is very interesting as it mentions a Halifax went down at 02.43 AM near Hoornaar and Hoogblokland on June 12, 1943. But again, the timing is wrong for me to have seen the crash. The bomber I saw was in broad daylight. Perhaps it is time to look for crashes of American bombers which flew at daylight. I wonder who can help us with USAAF losses over Holland?

Kees

P.S.
Across our house in the Emmastraat in Gorinchem lived an older civil servant with the last name VIS (fish). He married a young chick. She must have been still alive when I last visited the Emmastraat as the name VIS was on the door. If she is alive, you should visit her to see if she can remember the bomber incident. If alive, she must be in her nineties.

Perhaps there is no point to visit De Kooi where the wing of my bomber landed. The isolated farm seems to have been transformed into a business operation. But it still may pay off to visit the farms on the Groene Weg near the wing site. If there are people over 80, they may remember the dead airman in my Shot Down Bomber story and
where his body was buried. Looking for the burial place for the dead airman is crucial to solving the mystery of my Shot Down Bomber.

I plan to phone the Reformed Church in Hoornaar where there is a cemetery and will make inquiries. If I am not successful, can you contact them? It is much easier for you to do that due to the time difference between Holland and British Columbia. Could you also contact the cemetery at Hoogblokland? Thanks, Johan.

Kees


On Mar 19, 2013,
Johan Collee  wrote:

Hi Kees and Rebecca,

The story becomes stranger and stranger reading Pete's attachement. It's almost impossible that the crash you saw and the members of the crew in Goudriaan are connected to the same plane.

The Lancaster was hit at night by an German warplane, the plane you saw was on broad daylight and was shot down by FLAK, by the way where stood that FLAK? In Gorinchem?

I cannot find further information on whatsoever plane crashing in 1943 and 1944 in the area of Hoornaar.

Only a Spitfire crashed in Hardinxveld on 9-16-1944 and a P51 (Mustang) crashed between Meerkerk and Lexmond on 11-9-1944. These planes don't have a crew of 7 so one of these planes cannot be

have been seen by you. The only Lancaster that crashed at that time (5-22-1944) was near Molenaarsgraaf, it was the ND559 (6 men dead, one POW)

But Molenaarsgraaf is not in the direct surroundings of Hoornaar, actually Molenaarsgraaf is nearer to Goudriaan so you would think that the crew of this bomber were buried there but that's not the case.

I also did research on further wargraves in the surrounding of Gorinchem and Zuid-Holland but there are no wargraves were 6 airmen are buried from a Lancaster. I only found the grave of the Spitfire pilot who lays in Hardinxveld General Cemetry.

So I have still no real answers on this story.

Greetz,

Johan



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Wing Commander

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Hello Kees,

I can pass on a bit more information.

From a friend who does study USAAF crashes, here are all US four-engined aircraft, with a Missing Aircrew Report (MACR), lost on 21 and 22 May 1944:

Losses of B-24s :

* For 21 May : 42-110136 = 5th BG/13th AF Pacific

* For 22 May : 42-78228 = 461BG/765BS 15th AF (MTO)

Losses of B-17s :

* For 21 May :

41-24515 : 10 KIA (crashed North Sea)

42-3053 : 8KIA 2 POW

* For 22 May :

42-37870 : 7KIA 3POW

42-37979 : 10 KIA

42-31707 : 10 POW

42-97091 : 1 KIA 9 POW

42-102402 : 1 KIA 9 POW.

Please note that nothing is stated about areas of loss. I see one says "Pacific" so can be ruled out, as can the one stating "MTO" as that is Mediterranean Theatre of Operations. I think the serial numbers can be looked up, perhaps on a US-focused forum.

Also, the UK and Commonwealth had a policy of concentrating war graves post-war. So, conceivably, someone killed over say, France, and buried there during the war, could be exhumed and moved 120 kms away to a Dutch cemetery. This happened an awful lot. I know of two casualties lost over Hanover who ended buried in Belgium.

Finally, can your nephew look for surviving German flak battery records in the Netherlands? A few years ago, a colleague on Taxel Island sent me a report on a downed Allied aircraft. It was composed of German flak battery records, Dutch police reports and local eyewitness reports. It even identified a crewman being picked up in the water by the flak soldiers. As an aside, he got a kick out of reading it 60 odd years later.

Regards,

Dave



-- Edited by alieneyes on Wednesday 20th of March 2013 11:59:57 AM



-- Edited by alieneyes on Wednesday 20th of March 2013 12:05:14 PM

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Group Captain

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Hi,

I am not sure if you have this information or not but on the night of 7/8 Jan 1945 166 Sqn Lancaster NG290 collided with 170 Sqn Lancaster PB397 which resulted in the death of all 14 airmen. The crash occured at 22.00hrs between the villages of Aglishardt and Hengen 24 miles S E of Stuttgart.

I have a photo of the Aussie pilot F/O N K Dunlop 419166 RAAF the pilot of the 170 Sqn Lancaster.

 

Regards,

 

John W



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Group Captain

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Hello Thank you for your post.I was aware (but by coincidence only very recently) that NG290 may have collided with another Lancaster.NG290's pilot was not an Australian but a Canadian F/O Soper RCAF.There was no F/O Dunlop in the 166 crew.
I would really appreciate you contacting me direct on my email MJC41UK at YAhoo dot co dot uk (all lower case).Best wishes
B

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Brian Donaldson

Date:
166 Squadron RAF - Kenneth Laurence Pile.
Permalink   


Hi

I was hoping that you could help.

 

I am trying to find information concerning Kenneth Pile who I understand won the DFM with the squadron on behalf of my father -in-law, Eric Pile.

Eric himself was a Spitfire pilot and is trying to get as much info on his brother to assist in claiming the recently announced posthumous bar award.

Kenneth was killed in March 1945 with 156 squadron. His service number was 183091.

Eric is approaching his 90th birthday and it would be great to rpovide him with any background available.

 

Many thanks

 

Brian

 



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Anonymous

Date:
RE: 166 Squadron RAF Kirmington help available to researchers
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Trying to find out any information regarding flight navigator Leonard Charles Clutterbuck

Thanks



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Group Captain

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Hi I have already contacted you through the WW2 forum and will send the Operation book entries

B



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Aircraftsman 1st Class

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Hi, I hope you can help me with some info. My uncle was in 166, I have his flight book and a few details but hungry for more! He was a flight engineer and name was Ronald Albert Bird, only recently passed away aged 90. Any info or pictures would be fantastic.

Many thanks



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Rich
Anonymous

Date:
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Hi Anonymous

My Dad was Jack Folkard the Wireless Operator(Australian) on Queenie AS-Q ME 297.He remained lifelong friends with the Pilot ,Aurthur Saunders.Sadly, they have both passed away.

I visited Kirmington 4 years ago and the Pub there was great.met up with some Bomber Command enthusiasts and we had a great time.

My email is janefolkard@hotmail.com



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Group Captain

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Hi Rich,Sgt R.A.Bird was a Flight Engineer with 166 Squadron,arriving at Kirmington 3rd October 1943.His Pilot was Flying Officer Robinson.Somewhere along the way he got parted from his original crew.They were shot down and he wasnt flying with them.I would love to hear from you.Email me on mjc41uk AT yahoo DOT co DOT uk.I will see what other info I have including operation summaries etc. 



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Group Captain

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Hello Jane,re:Saunders crew 1945we were in touch a few years ago.You can email me direct if you wish mjc41uk AT yahoo DOT co DOT uk.



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