Halifax Nose Art at Canadian War Museum

matt · Air Vice Marshall

Halifax Nose Art at Canadian War Museum

Linda · Air Commodore

Great Nose-Art Matt.Does it mention which particular Halifaxes they are from,are they ones that were in "one bit" after the war and they just took the panels off?
i think they are incredible!

Pigeonbird · Air Commodore

The nose art certainly piques me interest and is timely, as I am planning a trip east for later in September. One of my hoped for stops is the War Museum so I can see personally what is involved with the plaque. I have made my views known (rather loudly I might add) and now I want to see what it is all about up close.

Does Clarence Simeoson, a nose art expert from Airdrie, Alberta, know about this collection. He is putting together a book on the subject.

My travel plan is to visit all Ontario Air Museums between Sept. 24th and 29th. The reason is to promote my books.

John

matt · Air Vice Marshall

and the rest...

-- Edited by matt at 07:22, 2007-08-31

matt · Air Vice Marshall

Clarence Simonsen knows about these, in facvt he was instrumental in getting them on display in the new museum. John as a vet I believe admission is free for you, the museum is well worth investigating but there is a lot of ground to cover. I skipped all of the Indian wars and Boer war stuff so I could spend more time int he Second World War and Korean War areas.

Linda, this link will take you to a section on the Nanton site which details which aircraft they belonged to.

Ken MacLean · Flight Sergeant

Admission to the CWM is free for veterans and for those currently serving. You may also bring in three guests free of charge every time you visit.

Underground parking at CWM is not free, $1.75 per half-hour with a $10.00 daily maximum. There is also ample (metered) on-street parking near the museum.

William Heron · Group Captain

Hi Matt, Interesting stuff from the Museum in Ottawa re the nose-art. I was particularly interested in "Jake Sent Me" as there appears to be a bit of controversy sorrounding this one according to Clarence. It is claimed that this piece of nose-art belonged to LK 828, none other than our own Halifax "Simcoe Warrior" of 431 Sqdn. Having had Clarence do me "Big Chief Wahoo" another 431 Sqdn. Hali that my brother and crew flew in and that of "Jake Sent Me" on a piece of the skin from NA337 at Trenton I folowed up with him for some time regarding this but it has never been resolved. As we very well know "Simcoe Warrior" undoubtedly was indeed LK 828 coded SE-S Which the Badgery crew flew in five times on Op's. The mystery continues. But a really nice job considering the distance. Bill.

William Heron · Group Captain

Hi Linda, See my note below to Matt. Bill.

Linda · Air Commodore

Bill-That is really interesting and it would be nice to know for definate.
I think "nose art" is just tremendous and it really must have cheered the lads up.A real shame that there isn't more of it.

matt · Air Vice Marshall

Bill,

The indian head on dispaly at the museum is also from 431 sqn, Halifax Mk. III (serial MZ655) was a No. 431 Squadron aircraft and carried the markings "SE-T" but it had no name. However an Indian with a head-dress was painted on the nose, quite appropriate as No. 431 was the RCAF's "Iroquois" squadron. MZ655 completed 39 operations from 24/25 May 1944 until 16 September 1944 when it was damaged in a minor accident. The aircraft was repaired and sent to No. 1659 Heavy Conversion Unit where it remained until the end of the war.

As for "Jake Sent Me", I don't believe it was LK-828. Unless it was given its nose art after it left 431 sqn and was sent to 1659 HCU.

Pigeonbird · Air Commodore

Dear Linda:

I'm stretching my memory back a lot of tears, but I don't remember the guys being terribly enthused by the art work on the nose of their plane. What did turn us on was the number of Bombs printed on the nose to indicate the number of operations done by the plane. You could hear the audible sighs when the number hit 30.

I think the art was done mostly by the Ground Crew guys, as they considered the plane as their property. We Crewmembers only had the use of it to fly the operation, and were censured if we didn't bring it back in one piece.

But, the art did tone up an otherwise quite blah machine.

John

William Heron · Group Captain

Hi Matt, F.Y.I. just as a closing note on his one. The other Halifax I was talking about, "Big Chief Wha-Hoo" (got the spelling right this time) was
NA 499 SE-W which is one of the profiles you did for me some time ago, another Badgery A/C, it was eventually sent to 1659 H.C.U. Clarence's authority on the subject of "Jake Sent Me" apparently told him that he had actually seen the nose-art on the a/c before it was scrapped but you could be correct that it might have been put there after it left 431 Sqdn. Bill.

matt · Air Vice Marshall

Pigeonbird wrote:

Dear Linda:

I'm stretching my memory back a lot of tears, but I don't remember the guys being terribly enthused by the art work on the nose of their plane. What did turn us on was the number of Bombs printed on the nose to indicate the number of operations done by the plane. You could hear the audible sighs when the number hit 30.

I think the art was done mostly by the Ground Crew guys, as they considered the plane as their property. We Crewmembers only had the use of it to fly the operation, and were censured if we didn't bring it back in one piece.

But, the art did tone up an otherwise quite blah machine.

John

John, I have heard similar things from other vets regarding nose art. A 426 vet that I know said that the ground crew had painted something on the nose but he couldn't recall what it was. As you indicated he was more interested int he bomb symbol total.

matt · Air Vice Marshall

William Heron wrote:

Hi Matt, F.Y.I. just as a closing note on his one. The other Halifax I was talking about, "Big Chief Wha-Hoo" (got the spelling right this time) was
NA 499 SE-W which is one of the profiles you did for me some time ago, another Badgery A/C, it was eventually sent to 1659 H.C.U. Clarence's authority on the subject of "Jake Sent Me" apparently told him that he had actually seen the nose-art on the a/c before it was scrapped but you could be correct that it might have been put there after it left 431 Sqdn. Bill.

Bill, I have never see the artwork for Big Chief Wahoo, what does it look like?

One other note about Jake Sent Me, if you look at the bomb symbols one of them says "D-Day", I don't know if Simcoe Warrior was up on D-Day or not but it seems odd to me that new nose art would have been applied to it at the HCU but the bomb symbols left intact.

Another possibility is, maybe on one side of the Halifax it had "Simcoe Warrior" painted on it and on the other side "Jake Sent Me."

William Heron · Group Captain

Hi Matt, The artwork for "Big Chief Wha-Hoo" is an indian head (full headress)
with BIG-CHIEF above and WHA-HOO below. next time we go for coffee remind me to bring it with me. Simcoe Warrior LK 828 SE-S was up on D-Day June 5/6flown by F/O M. S. Kyte and crew, the Sqdn. target on that day was Merville Francville. It was up again 6/7 this time crewed by F/O Harrison and crew when the target was Conde sur Noireau. The really strange thing about this is that in the "Aircraft on Charge" listing I have for 431 Sqdn. it also shows "Jake Sent Me" agAinst LK 828. Clarence and I e-mailed back and forth for about a month on this one and just couldn't come up with any viable explanation. When I look at the artwork Clarence did for me, it appears from the way it is done that it would appear on the port side of the nose otherwise the indian head would be facing the rear of the aircraft and we can see from pictures of LK 828 that "Simcoe Warrior" was on the same side (port) so I don't think the theory of it being on the opposite side sounds right (although anything IS possible). Also all of the bombs on the artwork have letters on them and I must e-mail Clarence and ask what the significance is, could be the first letter of the target struck (10 Op's) 10 bombs. On a different note I had an e-mail from Wally he and his wife are moving to St Catharines, no date yet as they are trying sell their home in Stratford he has promised to be in touch when things are settled and maybe we can ALL have that coffee together. Also, Bill Baluk put me in touch with Gow Harvey and I had a nice letter from his wife today (Wed.) along with some photos and an account of his time as a POW (HE WAS THE ONLY SURVIVOR FROM HIS CREW) Gow has memory problems but she has offered any help she can get from him. Will talk soon

Pigeonbird · Air Commodore

Hello Matt:

I notice that many of your group of Web Riders meet for coffee. I suppose this is in the Niagara Peninsula region. If any of you guys are at the Heritage Air Museum at Mount Hope on September 28th, I will be visiting the place that day. I have been invited to lunch by a Rev. Tom Wilson, a Historian as well as a Preacher, but I will be there for some time.

Besides promoting my book, I will be looking at the flags hung in the museum by a young Cadet, Devin Castilloux. He is called "The Boy with the Flag" and he obtained the signatures of Veterans across Canada for his flags. I do a bit of mentoring for him.

John

Date: Mar 4, 2014

I have in my a photo of a halifax which I am told is 431 Sqn SE Q. Can anybody enlighten what nose art the plance had as I cannot make it out.

Written on the photo bottom left is PL 26140. A copy was past to me by the late Ben Parker Jackson D.F.C 431 Sqn

k4kittycrew · Squadron Leader

Here is a thread from the Short Stirling Bomber Command Forum, which has a ever increasing collection of Handley Page Halifax nose art and aircraft images.
sas.raf38group.org/forum/viewtopic.php
Cheers,
John

Date: Aug 11, 2015

Hi Andy,

Do you still have a copy of the photo your talking about? Ben Jackson was my grandpa and would be really interested to see this photo.

Many thanks in advance

Dee