ORB December 23- 35 squadron Graveley. Gremburg/Cologne

paulh · Squadron Leader

ORB December 23- 35 squadron Graveley. Gremburg/Cologne

Date: Mar 21, 2010

Hi.

My late father, Kenneth Grantham DFM, was a wireless operator with 35 squadron.

The ORB's for both 35 Sqdn and RAF Graveley are held by the Public Records Office under the following references.

ORB 35 Sqdn 1944 - Air 27, 381
ORB Graveley 1944 - Air 28, 322

These can be viewed at Kew

paulh · Squadron Leader

Hi Anonymous,
What sort of dates are you talking about?
I afraid I can't get to Kew(ill health prevents) and I can't seem to be able to penetrate their online quoting system!!

All the best
Paul

Pathfinderson · Corporal

Hi Paul.

Sorry to hear about your difficulties with the PRO. I have never tried to get information from them remotely. I became interested in things aeronautical in my teens and gradually bullied Dad into revealing his wartime service. He was a bit reluctant at first but eventually opened up and that is when he revealed a treasure trove of photo's and a complete day by day wartime diary.

I went with him to Kew sometime in the 1980's. The ORB's are not very informative, being pretty much bare facts. However, they do add to the picture.

My Dad would have sort of crossed with yours at 35 Sqdn. The crew of which he was a member was captained by an American, 1st Lieutenant Dawson Kornegay and they started their 'career' with 640 Sqdn before being poached by Don Bennets 'horse theif' Hamish Mahaddie. They joined 35 in May 1944 and completed their two 'tours' with a raid on Essen on 12th December. He was posted from Graveley in January 1945.

I have recently heard that it is possible to obtain service records from the MOD and was planning to investigate that.

Regards
JohnG

Type683 · Corporal

Hi John

My father and crew joined 35 at Graveley after being at 51 and 578 Sqdns. They did their first Op at 35 to Fougeres on 08/06/44. They did Ops to Rennes Airfield (9th) and Renescure (16th) before the two gunners (Dad was Midupper) were badly wounded on the Op to Coubronne on 23/06/44 and that was the end of his war. It looks like our fathers also crossed pathes so to speak albeit it briefly.

Cheers
Type683

AW · Air Commodore

Hi,
I've already informed Paul that i have a copy of the 35sqdn ORB aleady on order for copying, for another project i'm on. If anyone wants anything from them, just let me know.
Alan.

paulh · Squadron Leader

John G.
For your interest an entry on the 35 squadron ORB for 2 January 1945 shows
1st/LT E D Kornegay ,DFC(USA 0-886195) GD, posted to 70th Replacement Control Dept, USAAF, on cessation of duty with RAF.

I cannot fin Grantham mentioned in the records, however there is a w/op 153492 SGT Graham, I. arriving safely back in UK-but no indication of from where or how.
I can send you copies(scans) if you are interested. Send PM with email address.

Alan W.
thanks for keeping me in mind for orbs.

Paul

Pathfinderson · Corporal

Hi Paul.

Yes, that is Dad's Pilot. He was one of those Americans who disagreed with his country's neutral stance, so he went to Canada and joined the RCAF. After training, he was shipped to England. After America entered the war, he was transferred to the USAAF and wore their uniform (with RAF wings above the right breast pocket) but insisted on remaining with 'his' crew in RAF service. At one point, he was awarded an immediate DFC (presented by Don Bennet in front of assembled Squadron personnel at Graveley) for bringing his aircraft and crew back on two engines. One heck of a Pilot!

Dad's diary notes that he was sent on leave for Christmas 1944 (his first away from camp since 1941) and that, when he returned to Graveley in January, he found that 'Doss' (as the pilot was known) had already been posted away, as had the Canadian Nav and Bomb Aimer. He never got to say goodbye and was not to see or hear anything of them until we tracked them down in the 1970's. I was fortunate to meet with all six of the crew.

When did your Dad join 35?

Pathfinderson · Corporal

Hi there, Type 683

What a small world it is! Your Dad's Pilot must have been P/O Marsden and the aircraft damaged (written off), F - Freddy.

Dad was also on the Coubronne trip on 23rd, flying in P-Peter. His diary entry for the 23rd notes:-

....for us it was an uneventful trip, but the crew of F for Freddy were not so lucky. They mixed it with a fighter and were badly bashed about, so much so, that the plane has been towed into the graveyard. The mid upper gunner lost an eye and the rear gunner an arm. Their turrets were just twisted metal. Those cannons sure can make a mess of a kite'.

And on 24th

'Today I went to the Graveyard and had a close look at F for Freddy. What a mess, its a wonder they lived at all. The gunners turrets are completely smashed up and twisted, the fuselage is peppered with holes big enough to get my arm through and the starboard wing was hit in the petrol tank with incendiaries which set it on fire.'

JohnG

Pathfinderson · Corporal

Hi Type 683

Just another snippet of information. Dad's diary, June 30th 1944.

' Another ugly day (refers to the weather JG) which improved during the afternoon when I was asked by P.O. Marsden's wireless op to fly with his crew because he wanted to go to the hospital to see the gunners. P/O Marsden was the pilot of the ill fated F for Freddy that got shot up last week. We took off for fighter affiliation and I swore I'd never fly with Marsden again, he was as jittery as a woman, he argued with his gunners the whole time. I suppose its due to the bad time he had but even so....he ought to pull himself together.'

By one of those strange twists of fate, Dad was to fly with P/O Marsden again. Nearly two years later, in February 1946, Dad was posted from India back to the UK and managed to scrounge a lift on an Avro York piloted by - P/O Marsden, and they got along very well. Any idea what became of him?

paulh · Squadron Leader

Hi John,
My father was at 35 squadron Graveley from July 1944 coming from1652 CU, Marston Moor viaPFF NTU at Warboys. The last entry in his log book was 15-9-1945-at trip under operation 'Dodge' to Bari in Italy repatriating pow's to Tibbenham.

Paul H

Date: Mar 25, 2010

Sgt. H.J.W. Furner who was injured aboard Lancaster TL-F so badly damaged over Coubronne that day and on the crew of P.O. G.A. Marsden is (as far as I know) still doing very well at age 85 residing in New Zealand. His son often frequents this forum and I'm sure would be quite interested in these posts. I hope his Dad lives on in good health to be 100! As far as I know Coubronne was the crew's 4th Operation from Gravelely and although scathed they were very fortunate to survive their night fighter encounter. The photos of the battle damage make it difficult to believe the Lanc was airworthy enough to enable a return of any kind.

Bob

Type683 · Corporal

Hi John
Yes, my Dad's pilot was P/O (Geoffrey) Marsden and were in F-Freddy. My Dad is Harry Furner and (as Bob mentioned) is still with is (all going well) due to turn 86 in June. Interesting to hear your Dad was on the same Op to Coubronne. Dad has mentioned that Geoff Marsden visited them in hospital and you've now added another piece to the puzzle with the background of how he came to visit and that Geoff was obviously 'a little worse for wear' after the Coubronne Op (not surprisingly). The W/Op that asked your Dad to fly with them was Harry Rolls.
They were on their 4th Op at Graveley. After Coubronne the Mardsden crew picked up 2 Australian gunners and carried on to complete a tour.
Dad did indeed lose an eye, he was blind in both for a time but thankfully his right eye recovered and he has led a full life being a technical teacher (woodwork) and drove until the age of 80. The rear gunner Neville Farley didn't lose an arm as such as they did a radical procedure (for the time) of transplanting a bone from one leg to replace the shattered arm bone.
We have photos of F-Freddy (that Bob has mentioned) that were taken after the raid, Geoff Marsden gave them to Dad when he visited the hospital.
I'm in touch with one of Nevilles sons and also one of the F/Eng Carl McBreartys' sons as well.
As for Geoff Marsden, we visited him in England on a couple of occasions but sadly he passed away in February 2000 aged 77 after a successful career in aviation (BOAC). We are still in contact with his wife.
I've left a message on your whiteboard as I'd like to discuss this further with you please.

Bob, thanks for your kind wishes regarding my Dad. I also hope he reaches the 'ton'.

Cheers
Type683

Pathfinderson · Corporal

Hi Type 683

My dad passed away in Jan 2008 after a mercifully short illness - he never really got over my mothers death two years before. They had been sweetheart since the age of twelve.

He would have loved these contacts, and to know how things turned out for your Dad. Please pass on my regards to your Dad and my gratitude for his service, which enabled me to enjoy the freedoms that I do.

Its funny, Dad never mentioned the war when I was young. He later confessed to me that the controversy about the morality of the bombing of Germany had left him feeling very guilty. I only discovered his involvement by accident in 1973 when, digging through an old trunk in the roof, I found his diary and photographs. At that time, I was besotted with aviation and, over a few years, was able to get Dad to accept that he had nothing to be ashamed of - quite the opposite. Thereafter, he willingly participated in my interest and research and we eventually tracked down all his former crewmates.

Regards

Pathfinderson · Corporal

Hi Paul.

Well, if your Dad joined 35 in July 1944, then he more than just passed with mine. The Kornegay crew arrived in late May, via conversion to the Lanc at Warboys, making their first trip in June. They were on ops until their last trip (Essen) in early December 44.

They were a tight knit crew, with 1st Lt Kornegay a very strict but much loved skipper. He was a real 'press on' type. On their trip to L'Hey on 9th July 44, they had trouble with the port outer engine after take off so the skipper simply had it feathered and continued on three. Over the target, he aborted their first run because he was not happy with their positioning and, circling around, got clobbered by flak during their second run in. They lost both starboard engines but the target photo showed good accuracy (confirmed in the ORB debriefing record). They restarted the troublesome port outer from which they managed to eke about half power, and limped home on 1 and a half engines. Over the channel and losing height all the way, they attracted some Spitfires who stuck with them until they crossed the English coast and they arrived back at Graveley way after the rest of 35 had returned. Happily, the wheels and flaps were undamaged and they made a successful landing. Thats what earned him his immediate DFC

Type683 · Corporal

Hi John

I was in the same boat (so to speak) as Dad didn't talk about the war while I was growing up. It was only after my Mum passed away and he retired that he started to open up about it all and thankfully I've been able to get a good deal of it down in writing.

Thanks very much for your kind wishes which I'll pass on to Dad.

Cheers
Type683

vhd · Aircraftsman 1st Class

Hi Alan

Am I correct in understanding that you have a copy of 35 Sqdns ORBS?

If so I would dearly like to get a copy for ops from Dec44 to Apr45.

My father served his first tour with 51 Sqdn and second with 35 Sqdn.

I have the orbs for Snaith but not Gravely. Any help GREATLY appreciated.

You can reach me direct at vhd@telus.net.

Thank You

Dan

PeteT · Wing Commander

Dan

I am in the process of researching 35 Squadron so I have a database with aircraft / crew / operation details, along with the ORB's.

If you could provide me with your father's name I would be happy to send you the information that I have.

Regards

Pete

AW · Air Commodore

Hi Dan, will do, i suggest that you remove your email address from your post, to avoid spammers getting hold of it. I have you address from the whiteboard message you sent me.

PeteT · Wing Commander

Alan

Just to advise, I believe that I have just produced a very detailed file on the person concerned (assuming I have the right name) for someone else (possibly another family member) which contains all the relevant ORB extracts.

Regards

Pete

-- Edited by PeteT on Sunday 16th of February 2014 05:16:19 AM

AW · Air Commodore

Thanks Pete, i'll leave this one to you.

Alan.

vhd · Aircraftsman 1st Class

Sincere Thanks to you both.

Date: Feb 26, 2015

Looking for ORB on mid-air Thames estuary collision where two Lancs went down. My Grand Uncle was air gunner and lost his life at 21 after 25 missions. The flight was 23 Dec 1944. His name was James (Jimmie) McGee, a Canadian. His serial was J/95373.

Any info u might be able to provide is great.

Scott - heirchive@gmail.com

PeteT · Wing Commander

Scott

I have just e-mailed you.

Regards

Pete

paulh · Squadron Leader

Good morning Pete.

Scott- Two e-mails from me also sent re ORB's and book extract.

Paul H

RickHM · Aircraftsman 1st Class

Good afternoon, Geoff Marsden was my father, and as said above, sadly passed away in 2000. He had told me the story of F-Freddy, of the bullets slamming into the armoured seat, of the awful silence from the gunners when he radio checked (he knew they were dead, he was so relieved when he found out they were alive), and of the desperate and terrifying dive to try to put out the fires on the wing. It took two of them to pull the aircraft out of the dive I believe, during which they lost the german fighter. It has made me go quite cold reading about the awful state of the aircraft, and especially the two gunners wounded so appallingly. Dad often spoke of their amazing resilience and stoicism.

My brother and I are gathering as much information together as we can, and I will of course share what I find.

Kind regards

Rick

PeteT · Wing Commander

Rick

If I can be of any help with your research, please contact me via my research website: 35squadronresearch.wordpress.com/

Regards

Pete

RickHM · Aircraftsman 1st Class

Thank you, Pete

Type683 · Corporal

Hi Rick

My Dad was mid-upper gunner (Harry Furner), one of the 2 gunners wounded on your father's crew on F-Freddy.

Andrew and I have been exchanging information after meeting earlier this year so it's great to see you on this forum.

If you wish to get in contact direct please email me at furryfil (at) gmail.com.

Hope to hear from you soon.

Cheers

Phil

Date: Jul 26, 2018

Do you know anything else of my father Edward D. "Doss" Kornegay? mrobles9067@yahoo.com

PeteT · Wing Commander

Your father served with No 35 Squadron throughout 1944. I would be happy to provide you with a summary of his service if you are interested

Regards

Pete

Date: Jul 26, 2018

Hi Anonymous

I met Doss on a number of occasions as my late father, Kenneth Grantham, was wireless operator on his crew. I have extensive records of his service including a copy of his logbook. My father also kept a daily diary during the war. Doss was very highly regarded by the RAF (he was, of course, USAAF). I also have photos of the crew, both formal and informal, including one off Doss being awarded his 'immediate' DFC by Air Vice Marshall Bennet in front of the assembled Squadron personnel at Graveley.

Regards

PeteT · Wing Commander

Would it be possible to have a copy of his log and of the photos for inclusion on my History of 35 Squadron website. If so, please could you contact me either via the e-mail link on this site, or via the contact link on 35squadron.wordpress.com/

Thanks

Pete