Who's kidding whom?

Date: Jun 10, 2010

Who's kidding whom?

Date: Jun 10, 2010

I'm not sure what you are talking about, can you elaborate?

AW · Air Commodore

Hi,
It would be easier to answer if the exact meaning of the post was known, but if i'm right in assuming that this is directed at the planned Bomber Command Memorial, then it means exactly "Bomber Command" not the US Airforce. The memorial is to "ALL" who served or died within RAF Bomber Command during WW2, no matter what race or creed, including the 2 family members you mention. It certainly isn't meant to be a slap in the face of all the American crews who lost their lives.

-- Edited by AW on Thursday 10th of June 2010 09:13:39 AM

Date: Jun 10, 2010

You have my meaning exactly.

Shame!

Only the Brit's!... But then again, that's the British way! disbelief

Type683 · Corporal

Obviously "anonymous", whoever you are, you have little idea of the various memorials to the American flyers who served at old airfields around the UK. You have also failed miserably to do any research before making a rather cutting statement about the British. They are commemorating what happened to THEIR airmen during the campaign. I would suggest if you feel that strongly about it then YOU do something to rectify it in relation to those brave American flyers who also lost their lives during the same campaign instead of hiding behind an "anonymous" tag on a great forum like this one.
Type 683

Date: Jun 10, 2010

Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.
Winston Churchill

AW · Air Commodore

Hi,
I fully agree with Type 683's comments, i cannot see the logic in your argument. Many people from many countries joined the RAF in order to fight against the nazi regime, or maybe just for the hell of it, even though their own countries were not yet officially involved in the war, who knows? And if the survivors of Bomber Command, and others who are proud of what they went through, wish to put up a memorial to those who fought and died within the force, then so be it. I'm sure the 8th AF have their own memorials.
I hope this thread does not go down the road of unpleasantness for any reason, not from me anyway, i'm finished with it and i remain firm in my belief, so over to anyone else who may feel the need to comment.

Date: Jun 10, 2010

The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.
Winston Churchill

Pathfinderson · Corporal

A very apt quotation, Anonymous.

Our American cousins are more than justifiably acknowleged in the rather splendid American Air Museum at Duxford which, as it states in its purpose, 'stands as a memorial to the 30,000 Americans who died flying from the UK in the second world war.

see www.aam.iwm.org.uk

Date: Jun 10, 2010

However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.
Winston Churchill

America is a big country. The internet is a very powerful media. If request to support The Bomber Command Memorial are being sought worldwide, and they should be.

Why ignore your most powerful market? and it's people.

I've been following this on Facebook for 6 months now. I've had request for donations from Canada, Detroit, New Zealand, and Boston.

Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.
Winston Churchill

But then Again! The Brit's voted Churchill out of office! Go Figure!

Pathfinderson · Corporal

Maybe the 'Brits', as you put it, felt it would be inappropriate to solicit donations widely in the USA for what is, after all (and to take your first objections) a matter of a memorial to men of the commonwealth. I would agree with that sentiment.

Have you checked out the American Air Museum website? You will note that funding for this was sought in, and came from, the USA as well as the UK and the Middle East. That was appropriate, given that the memorial is to US airmen. It was also widely supported by an organisation here in the UK (of which I am a member) called 'Friends of the Eighth' (8th USAAF).

As to Churchill post war, its called 'democracy' (LoL). He was a great man and a great and inspirational war leader but maybe, just maybe, not the best person to take things forward in the peace. As you say, 'go figure'.

Date: Jun 11, 2010

Churchill?? Great man??

In my opinion he betrayed the bomber boys.......to mention everyone but them in a speech was an insult, and it still wrankles today.

To me his betrayal was mainly to Sir Arthur Harris, to whom he gave the orders to bomb Dresden and then abondoned him when the recriminations started.

He will never be great in my eyes..........

Anyone would think that the Battle of Britain ended the war as the fighter boys are rightly lauded. Point is that the bomber boys fought from the first day to the last but were summarily disregarded like their sacrifice meant nothing.

smudgersmith · Squadron Leader

Really do not see any point in your posts or comments. You seem to have very little knowledge or understanding of either Bomber Command or the memorial, I would suggest you front up or shut up.

Your only interested in confrontation. End off .......

Steve

Date: Jun 11, 2010

Thank You!

Date: Jun 11, 2010

Thank you!

Date: Jun 11, 2010

Yes!... and Thank You! Thank You!... Thank You!

Date: Jun 11, 2010

Churchill will always be in my eyes... "The World's Greatest Fraud"...

Date: Jun 11, 2010

Please tell me where to send the CHECK: I'll send it in honor of my 2 NZ Uncles... and my 2 Irish Catholic American cousins...

Thank You!

Date: Jun 11, 2010

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
Winston Churchill

Date: Jun 11, 2010

Remember.....each anonymous may not be the same anonymous!! I wonder if the one that started the thread is called Kermit......

He sure sounds like a muppet to me!!!

Waltham100 · Leading Aircraftsman

Surely a Bomber Command Memorial means just that, a memorial to Bomber Command??

Its long overdue by the way.

No decent person would deny the contribution of the 8th USAAF would they??

Pathfinderson · Corporal

Methinks the 'original' anonymous simply courted controversey by posting an ill informed comment. The point is that the BC memorial is intended to honour the men of BC, from whichever nation, who served in RAF Bomber Command. That does not include the valiant members of the 8th USAAF, which, quite apart from nationality issues, was a separate command to BC (except those like my Fathers Pilot, who whilst wearing the uniform of the 8th USAAF, served his entire time in Europe as a bomber Pilot with 35 Squadron PFF).

I made the point earlier, that Britain has acknowledged the Americans by creating the American Air Museum as an official memorial, opened by HM the Queen. There is no equivalent to honour BC - both Hendon (RAF Museum) and Duxford/Lambeth (Imperial War Museum) are more general in nature, the former saluting the RAF and its aircraft since its inception and the latter commemorating British and Imperial conflicts (with the notable exception of the aforementioned American Air Museum).

I have no problem with the original anonymous expressing his views. That is, after all, part of the freedom that ALL airmen in WW2 fought for. I disagree with him and have pointed out his flawed logic using facts and evidence. I see no point in getting 'hot under the collar' over his ignorance. He can either accept my polite response or not.

Waltham100 · Leading Aircraftsman

Anonymous wrote:

Churchill?? Great man??

In my opinion he betrayed the bomber boys.......to mention everyone but them in a speech was an insult, and it still wrankles today.

To me his betrayal was mainly to Sir Arthur Harris, to whom he gave the orders to bomb Dresden and then abondoned him when the recriminations started.

He will never be great in my eyes..........

Anyone would think that the Battle of Britain ended the war as the fighter boys are rightly lauded. Point is that the bomber boys fought from the first day to the last but were summarily disregarded like their sacrifice meant nothing.
____________________________________________________________
Sure there was more to it than that but its understandable to view it that way. Churchill no great person in my eyes either.

Pathfinderson.....spot on.......enough said.

-- Edited by Waltham100 on Sunday 13th of June 2010 11:57:34 PM

Date: Jun 14, 2010

Anonymous wrote:

You have my meaning exactly.

Shame!

Only the Brit's!... But then again, that's the British way!

are you simple. or just trying to cause trouble ,show some respect instead of your pathetic comments.

matt · Air Vice Marshall

phil salmon wrote:

are you simple. or just trying to cause trouble ,show some respect instead of your pathetic comments.

I am going to close this thread. It looks as though a child somewhere got a hold of their parent's computer.

-- Edited by matt on Tuesday 15th of June 2010 09:58:48 AM