Stirling / Halifax Losses - Database

Date: Jan 2, 2009

Stirling / Halifax Losses - Database

Date: Jan 5, 2009

john ,

needing to be able to access a searchable database for the HALIFAX i created my own - using as a starting point HALIFAX FILE and then adding to it as i went along . all 6,116 aircraft plus the first two prototypes are detailed .

i now have two different databases - by HALIFAX serial number - and a second that details HALIFAX involvement in bombing operations (which is on-going) - BOMBER COMMAND LOSSES was useful here as a basic reference leading me to ORBs etc .

i am aware of similar lists on line but not as useful as these .

jettisoning

Date: Jan 7, 2009

Many thanks for your reply,mate.

You ought to be congratulated for taking the time and the continued effort in compling the list.

I hope, should the need arise that I may call on you to solve a particular request for information if and when that may be forthcoming.

Regards,
John

Date: Jan 7, 2009

john

i would be pleased to help with any HALIFAX related matters you wish to raise

jettisoning

mr goon · Squadron Leader

This must be interesting to do, but hard going at times and very rewarding in the end well done !!!

Stirlingpilot · Flight Sergeant

Being a Stirling specialist, I am using the very good "Stirling Story" by M Bowyer. ISBN 0-947554-91-2. Details all the Stirlings by Serial number but also gives Sqn/ID letters at various stages of use and SOC dates. I have only found one error in this and regard it as the definitive reference ..... wonder if my wife would transfer it to Access?

http://www.stirlingpilot.org.uk

-- Edited by Stirlingpilot at 06:55, 2009-01-13

Date: Jan 13, 2009

jettisoning wrote:

john

i would be pleased to help with any HALIFAX related matters you wish to raise

jettisoning

My interest is RCAF squadrons using Halifaxers. Would it be possible to get a copy or extract from your databases? E-mail me at rwrwalkerATody.ca.

Bill W.

Date: Jan 15, 2009

bill w

i'd like to help but can't seem to get your email address to work .

jettisoning

Bill Walker · Warrant Officer

here is the full address (i get so much spam anyway)

rwrwalker@ody.ca

or try contacting me through the links on my web page, www.ody.ca/~bwalker/

Date: Jan 19, 2009

Thanks to all regarding your replies, to stirlingpilot, I've sent you a PM and welcome you to continue your database.

Regards,
John

Date: May 30, 2009

Hi, looking for any further information other than available from Chorleys, CWGC and other usual sites.

Halifax HR732 of 51 Sqd MH-Y failed to return from raid on Leipzig early hours of 4th December 1943.

From researching all losses that night only a Lanc and this Halifax have no recorded lsoo site.

Another 51 Sdn Halifax HR782 saw a bomber hit twice by flak and explode shortly before they were also hit by flak and crashed near Weiler (not Weyer as Chorley). As the 2 aircraft took off close together it is likely that they were still close on the return leg.

The wedding ring of P/O Salvage (not Savage as Chorley, but in Vol 6 corrections) was returned without any other detail 3 years after end of war, so the crash was on land not North Sea. No nightfighter claim tallies so it looks like the bomber hit twice and exploded could be the one we are looking for. We have no crash site recorded or fate of the crew and where they were buried. With no crew being found, then it seems none were able to bale out. Do you have anything further to add?

it looks as if we need to trawl through German flak claims and local newspaper archives (local to where?) and also whatever units the German had for recovering wrecks for analysis of new equipment and also any crew remains.

I'm hopeful that they have been concentrated in Rheinberg CWGC cemetery but as 7 "unknowns" but hopefully still together, even if we won't know who is who.

Any further info would be appreciated.

The pilots widow and relatives of at least 4 other crew are now researching. The rear gunner Sgt D W Milliken had a twin brother (also RCAF) who recently died and his family are driving this enquiry. They have the ORB and his RCAF file but at yet no more clues as to what happenedto them.

Any further info you may have would be much appreciated.

Do you have the crash site co-ordinates?

Have you tried plotting them on Google Earth?

Sometimes useful inplotting the route, flight time per Sqdn etc...

Regards, Kevin

Date: May 30, 2009

Hi Kevin,

You may want to contact Peter Evans from

www.luftwaffe-experten.org/

This an excellent and very helpful site. They may be able to identify luftwaffe pilots claims and A.A claims for this case.

I used their help before with much success.
Regards,
John

KevinW4 · Leading Aircraftsman

Jettisoning: Hi, impressed that you have put so much effort into your database!

Getting all that information must have taken years! Well done.

Can you give me all the full information you have for HR732? I believe it to be a MkII but did it have the perspex nose without gun? Did it also have the H2S radome? Any photo (51 Sqdn MH-Y)?

Thanks in advance - I would have pM'd but can't find you on the User Details List

Cheers, Kevin

k4kittycrew · Squadron Leader

Yes Kevin, 'jettison' has put together a fantastic database and site. His efforts are greatly appreciated by all.

John

KevinW4 · Leading Aircraftsman

Hello, Gilles

I believe tou have an incorrect serial for the Halifax B Mk II lost minelaying off Bochum on the night of 12/13 February 1944 (almost the anniversary now)

You show it as NR910, but I believe it should be HR910.

The information I have now found is:

February 12/13, 1944: 6 Halifaxes from 419 were ordered on a mining operation to the German naval and seaplane base at Bochum in the Frisian Islands.

The crews were over the garden, sowing 10 x 1,500 lb mines. (this is from the 419 Squadron website and I think they meand "gardening")

One Halifax, flown by W/Cdr W. Pleasance returned early as the navigation aids were u/s.

One aircraft piloted by F/Lt D. Laidlaw, RCAF and crew, flying Halifax B Mk II HR-910 coded VR-R, failed to return from this operation.

Sgt J. Ashton, RAF; F/O W. Rempel, RCAF; F/O R. Kemp, RCAF; W/O S. Lagdon, RAF; F/Sgt A. Miller, RCAF; W/O1 J. Bachand, RCAF.

All were lost without a trace.

Mining operations "Gardening" were usually regarded as training prior to a "rookie" crew forming part of the Main Force bomber raids.

I can't see any previous reference to the crew in 419, and there is a file in the UK National Arrchives at Kew, near Heathrow, for HR910 which seems to refer to an incident at Croft airfield in September 1943.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/details?Uri=C6577866 Reference:AVIA 5/22 Description: Type: Halifax 2 (HR-910); Location: Croft; Report No.: W1653

Date: 1943 Sept Held by: The National Archives, Kew.

It may be that HR910 had been damaged whilst with another Squadron and after repair was allocated to a "new" crew in 419 to replace losses.

The aircraft and crew were lost without trace, and I don't think that any other crew on the other 419 aircraft reported anything. It may be a mechanical or airframe failure as a result of the repair, bad weather such as icing or a night fighter. The stretch of sea is quite restricrted and would be heavily defended not only by flak boats but also any passing German vessels or submarines, so it wasn't just static areas, an enemy vessel could be anywhere.

It wasn't well known but the Luftwaffe had radar which could track the Monica radar which the RAF/RCAF used to detect enemy night fighters, but actually homed the fighters in on them, and the H2S radar needed to ensure they were dropping their mines in the correct areas was also tracked by German radar. Added to that, flying at low level in darkness near the sea in gusty or stromy weather, a moment's tiredness could be fatal. As there were no survivors or any trace of the crew, it would seem they had no time to abandon the aircraft and all perished together when it hit the water.

I join you in remembering Joseph, the rest of his crew and all who gave their lives for our freedom.

I haven't been able to contact "jettison" and hopefully he will have more to add!

-- Edited by KevinW4 on Saturday 9th of February 2013 02:33:36 PM

gillesluce1 · Aircraftsman 1st Class

I would like to get in touch with this member called 'jettison' which has put together a Halifax database and site. Would you be able to direct me to his site or email please? My uncle dissappeared on February 13, 1944 in Halifax NR910 (419 Squadron RCAF). Many thanks & best regards. Gilles Bachand, Montreal, Canada