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Post Info TOPIC: Betty's


Flight Lieutenant

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Betty's
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Many of you will be aware of Betty's Cafe in York and its history of being a gathering place of Pilots and crews, from the local bomber stations around York, well Betty's has a mirror that became a focal point for the airmen to sign their names on, I now have a list of all the signatures on the mirror if anyone needs any names checking

Jim

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Group Captain

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Posts: 164
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Hi Jim, Great idea, yes "Betty's Bar" was well known by the aircrews of Yorkshire. I wondered if my brother's name might be on there. I really don't know if he ever visited there but it would be interesting to know one way or the other. His name was Angus Heron, apparently affectionaly known to his crew as "Jock" being from Glasgow I guess it's kind of fitting. Look forward to hearing from you.Thx.
Bill Heron/Niagara 

-- Edited by William Heron at 13:51, 2009-01-08

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Bill Heron



Air Commodore

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When I was in #6 Group during the war, it was called Betty's Bar, and I visited it a few times. I saw the mirrors again in 2000 when I was touring England. Don't think I scratched my name on them. There was an item in the newsletter from Eden Camp at Malton, North Yorkshire, but it won't post on here.

John



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John A. Neal


Flight Lieutenant

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Posts: 40
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Hi Guys, had a look, no Angus Heron or Jock, but i understand a section of it was destroyed in a bomb blast so who knows. I'm researching 14 guys from Riccall and Rufforth and not one mentioned in this list, I never visited this mirror myself, wich is daft as i work in an office just around the corner, think its the price of the cakes that put me off.

Jim

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Air Vice Marshall

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Posts: 350
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Hey Jim,

Just wondering if my cousin's name might be on the mirror, Gerald Sorel.

Cheers!
Matt

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Flight Lieutenant

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Posts: 40
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Can't find it on my list Matt, but i recon my list has no where near all the names on it, some can't be made out and some were lost in a bomb blast, so you never know

Jim

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Leading Aircraftsman

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Posts: 7
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Hey Jim:

My Dad was stationed with 432 Squadron at East Moor in 1944.  Could you check your list for the following names?

Pilot: JOHNSTON, F/O Verdun Robert
Navigator: BUCKLEY, James "Jim" 
Bomb Aimer: SMITH, Robert "Bob"
Wireless Op: TITUS, John Sidney "Jack"
Tail Gunner: SCARFF, Bruce
Mid Upper Gunner: WILBURN, G. "Shorty"
Engineer: GIBSON, R. "Pete"

Thanks


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Flight Lieutenant

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Posts: 40
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Hi, sorry for the delay in replying, probabally best if i just place all the names here for all to see. good luck, I live 3 miles from East Moor Airfield.

Jim

The Names on the Mirror

 

J. Abilies

Flight Sergeant D.F.Allen, 408 Squadron

F.M. Anderson, Penwortham, Lancashire

R.M. Arevetham

Ashburton, Canterbury, New Zealand, 27.04.40

M. Ashton, 1st North Riding, Strensall, York

John Averwell

G.C. Baldwin, F.A.A. Squadron, S.K.U.A.S.

N. Ballantyne

Charles Barbein, D.C.

Butch Barton 03.07.39

Geo Aubrey Barton

Guy Barton

John H. Barton

H.S. Bath

F. Beckwith

B. Beetmont

Flight Sergeant R.G. Bell 408 Squadron

All Bellingham

G.V.Berf

Ray Berlsheiser

A. Betty, 1948

W.F. Beverley

General Carl Bin

S.B. Bird

R.B. Birken

M. Bitherlang, Mayoress of Leeds, 1936

A.C. Blair, 1235688 Hutch, Holme on Spalding

K. Bloor

W.N.C.A. Bonnally, B/A R.A.A.F.

 

G. R. Adam

Allan Allison

Pillipha Ann, 1942

N. A. Arnold, 1939

Sanib D. Arthur

R.H. Aulton

C.S. Awin

Richard Backwell

Billy Bangwell

Discip Barney

G. Barries

Geo Y.W.D. Barton

John Barton

C. A. Basket

P. Baxter

E.V. Bedford

E.V. Belapour

W.F. Bellerby

T. Belt

Ted Benson

J.H. Berrin

E. Bettys

Billy

Joan Binkers

Derek Birdes

Criss Biscomb

A.C. Bloom

H.E. Bloor

Bob

R. Bond

 

Boucard, Joseph, (Sailor) Nantes, France

Goe T. Boyes

E. H. Bradley, K.D.G.

S.C.O.M. Bradwell, 1st North Riding A.T.S., Strensall Camp 1939

G.H. Brewer

F.H. Bright

J. Brook

A. Basil Brown

G.H. Brown

L. Brown

R.E. Sapper Brown

L.F. Brunt

H. Buaan

Derek Buder

Sergeant Bullingen

B.L. Burne

Frederick Bush

G. Butler

Al Bryson

R.H. Cairns

D.M. Cameron, South Rhodesia

J.A. Campbell, R.C.A.F. Alberta, Canada

M. Carley

Andrew Castle, Cloumbus, Ohio U.S.A.

L. Cawood

J. Clark

R. Clayton

Sandy Carlos Clarke, 23rd Hussars

R. Clough

G.R. Colt

 

 Bin R. Boredg

K. Boyes

J. R. Bradley, Scarborough

W.L. Brewin

Audrey Brocklebank

J. Browerken

Christine C. Brown

Jean Brown

Meb Brown

G. R. Bruckshank, F.A.A. Squadron, S.K.U.A.S.

Taffy Bruten, 231 Squadron

D. Buckton

J. Bucket

J. Burkton

Geoff Burnley

Geoffrey R. Butcher

Betsy Butson

Jast Byer

Camerons, 1940-1946

E.J. Canham

Bob Canton

Margaret Carlyle-Ball

L. Carter

Chuck

M.Clark

T. Clarke, London

F.H. McCleary

C.R.P. Cole

G.W. Paul Cambe, IIIIXXXXX

 

 J.T. Common

W.A. McConnell

Len Cooke R.A.F. Engineer

J.H. Wilson Cooper

G.M. Copeland

H.J. Corer

M. Could

Reg. Cowling

C.S. Graig

Tom Cramer Switzerland

Even Cranswick

Tom Creson

G. Croot Wests Australia, R.A.A.F.

E.J. Cunham

R. M. Curray

G.W. Daniels M.B.E.

R.L. Davis

M.W. Day

Dagwood Diving

Margaret Dodds Newcastle

Bud McDonald-R.C.A.F. Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

J.F. McDonald

J. Dook

Ray Doral

Ami Dougall

Cyril Dowler 1941

E.S. Dudley

J.W. Duggs

J. Dullan

K. Dunn

J.V. Dyson

Val. G. D.

Bill Ear

R. Edwards

K. Fahy

Edward Farley

G.E. Feaser

 

W. Comstock Royal Montreal Neg.17.12.33

Anthony Cook

D. Cooper

W.M. Cooper Lord Mayor 7.1.39

R.L. Corby

F. Corpland B.N.A.F. C.M.F. (Paratrooper)

Glen Cove

K.D. Cox 485 Squadron, New Zealand

Mary Craig

R.H. Crampton

L. Cranwick

G. Crook R.A.A.F.

S.L. McCullock 12731 R.C.A.F.

D.C. Cunrew

G.C. Daniel Ghent, Belgium

M. David R.A.F. 92 Maintenance Unit

Lewis L. Darloys

John Dirke

J. Dixon Leeds

J.W. Dodworth

J. Donald

F.E. Donkerley

Paddy Joc Doolin 231 Squadron

E. Doris

Guy M. Dougall

J.R. Drury

G. Dudson Leeds

John Duke

Digwood Dumping

L. Dunn

J. W. Dyson

Vally D.

D.J. Eastham

El Ellon

K. Falim

Chaior Farmers Canada

Margaret Naef Finnish

 

C. Gamble

A. Gautholma

D. Gibb

W. Gill Aitkinson

J. Gladys

J. Goddard

M. Goggile

F.O. Golding

Leonard G. Golding

J. Gordon-Rice

J. Gouterworth

Peter J.S. Grant

G.W.G. Gray Skelton

S. Green Spr 20805507 49th DN/N.Yorks

J. Greenwood

D.T. Griffiths 1939

Nanette Greves Smith

W. Gull

G.S. Hally Palmerston Both, New Zealand, R.N.Z.A.F.

G.R. Halton 19.1.41

W. Hardal-Spink

L.O. Harrison 12.9.39

A. Harrogate

Cyril Hatton

A.B.J. Hayward

R. Hay****

Jack Henderson

G. R. Henley

R.S. Henley

Blanco Heslop

J.C. Hevero

P.W. Hilliard

P.Hilto

D.B. Hobson 22.1.48 ?

W. Holden

John G. Hollis

A.E. Hopper K.D.G.

E. Horsley D. Crew

Ray Gardener 405 Squadron

A. Gawthorne

Cyril H. Gibbs R.A.S.C. 26.6.40

Jack F. Gilly U.S. Army 20.12.42

S. Glover

Weston George

E.P. Golding

F.P. Golding Rushton

Jean Goldsmith

Terence Gorora

R.C. Goy

Gas Gray

R.M. Gray

Winifred C. Gregory

C. Grook Durham

A.W. Guest

K. Guyatt

D. Hanover Ontario, Canada

J. Harrison Texas U.S.A.

Ron Harrod 11 R.T.R.

J. Hastings

Raymond Hawks R.G. R.A.A.F.

A.B. Hayward

W.S. Hayworth R.A.F. Poclington 12.1.42

J.H. Henderson

Pt. Henley H.M.S. Alynbank

G. Herbert

Bertram Hesmond-Halgh

Hickerley

John Hillman

J. Hird D. Crew

Derek Holdband

R. Holderworth

K. Holman

Sally Horlner

D.G. Hudson

 

Bill Howard A.A.R.E. September 1939

E.M. Hulse

John Hutchinson

G. Hutton South Combe

Paul Hybon

G.C.M. Ireland

N.C. Jackson V.C. 106 Squadron

R.N. Jackson

A. Jalyn

Jimm

S. Johns

E.R. Jones

Maris A. Jesting

John Kaye

Mark Keer

H.W. Kemp

J.R. Kendall

Shorty Keough U.S.A.

Knight

B. Langley H.M.S. Express, Rsweir (****)1946

Lambert Langton

J.R. Larkin

C.H.I. Larsone

Peter Lawman

Brian Leckley Ulster, 1957

F. Lee R.A.F.

G. Letters Barney

L.S. Lidingham Lt. R.A.A.C.

R.G.D.E. Little

Snr. C.T. Levette 11453 New Zealand, R.C.C.N.Z.F.

C. Lowey

J.T.C. Lund Rask B.E.F.

W.B. Mackley Auckland, New Zealand

Frank Maise

Andrew B. Mamedoof U.S.A. Eagle Squadron

Sergeant Marmwick 143 Squadron, 3.9.43

B. Martin R.A.A.F. Australia 405373

Johney Hughes R.A.A.F.

T.W.B. Hutch Holme-on-Spalding

L. Hutchinson

Pat Hybein

Tangmere-Ineson

R.N. Jackson

A. Jaill

J.Jelfet

G.C. John****

Thomas Johnson

G. Jones K.D.G.

John H. Key

D. Keeler

Con Kelway Victory and B.C.

John H. Kendal

J.K. Kender Derby

Kipp

G.A. Peter Koiley

Tom Laplank R.C.A.F. Toronto, Canada

Bun Larmon

Sask Latton

F.B. Leach Sunco Leeds

B.E.Lee

Tempjos Lenna

J. Lewis

J.D. Lithouse

Rose Lockwood

Roy Lumba

H.M. McKey

T. Maher

Margery

D. Margery

V. Mart

L.Naim

Thos. H. Neddar

H. Nelson R.C.A.F.

J.T. Neolham

G. NewleySpr. 2081409 49th A.A.Br.R.E. Sept 12.39

K. Newley-Eric

W.A. Newman

C. P.L. Nicholson W.H. Nomson

Charles Nydd

Maggie Olso Whitley Bay

H.R. Omen

Dodley Osen

N. Palow

J.H. Parkington

B.G. Parrish

Happy Pays

A.B. Percy

Sergeant Peter T.W. Drayton, York

Chris Plaston

Jervis Pomley

N. Puck P/O Poland

Alfred E. PugarS.S. Northumberland 21 31.12.40

P. Quinn

Len Rahaley

G. Rawdin

Les. H. Read

Jim Revill

Allen Reynolds S.A.A.F.

Tom Riley

Elmer A. Rithe

Jean Robertson

J. Roberts

Rodgers

S.A. Roe 1939

Joyce R.B. Roisey

Allen Rose 1940

Jack Rosemary

 

 Neil

Tom C. Nelson

B.R. Netherfood

Tom Newman

B.N. Nicholson

Peter Noble April 15th 1946

R. Norris

Chap Oleven

H.R. Omar

M. Optunbery August 14th 1939

A. C. Palfreema

Roy Pana

R. Parkington

J.D. Paterson Scottish Horse

D. Pearce

J.H. Perrin

E. Pinder

J.A. Poad

B.Box

Bell Punch

H. Rafferty R.A.A.F.

Res. G.E. Rarghchroft K.S.L.I.

F.O. Rawlinson

A.A. Redbond R.A.F. Rolls Royce Ltd.,

Reymonds

Cliff Richards R.A.A.F.

Jean Ritching

I. Ritson

A. Robinson

D.H. Robson

L.Rodgers 22.6.46

Vera Rosamund Roe

J. Rorum

Sylvia Rose

J. Rosergh F. 3Hornsea

 

 Ronnie the Rotter

G. Rommelly

Bert Rusty 1942

Hash Ryan

Yvonne Scarfe

S.H. Sedgewick

Rose Seth Sutherland 49th D.W. West Yorks. A.A.R.E.

Billy Seward 1949

John Shaw

K.B. Shepard

L. Sheppard Spr. 2088050

Diana Sheridan

Alan H. Simpson

Biddery Snith

Eric Smith

Grager Snith York 194?

S.V. Snith Tayape, New Zealand

James E. Sneeton

N.W. Stewb Preston

A.C. Story

John D. Strughia

Ben Stubbs

M. Suthe

D.S. Sykes

W.M. Taishef Jap

Storm Tanner Pilot, R.A.A.F.

J. Taylor A/C8 H.M.S. Rodney

W.H. Taylor

J.R. Thomas

E. Thompson

H. Thorp

D.H. Peare Trent S.S.R. Regina, Canada 11.3.41

Pike Turner 231 Squardon

J. Underwood

D. Vally

N. Verity

 

W.J. Wallace Valparaiso, Chile, South America

Frank E. Walker

Sergeant Rowland 408 Squadron

Keen Rudy 55th Parabridge 6.10.43

A. Ryan Ducks, Puududel

R.E. Sapper-Brown

Scott

Willy Semple R.A.F. Mug

C.E. Sharp

S.K. Shaw D2 Post Observer 1942

W.S. Shepherdson

L.W. Sheppard 2608TT8

J.L. Sim Montreal

B. Smith 485 Squadron (New Zealand)

C.H. Smith London

G. Smith Stockton

Jasa Smith

W. J. Smith

Fred Steward

R.H. Stiles

Strathroy

Mary Stuart

J.D. Suride

G.P. Sutherst 2/8th Lean, Australia

C. Trevor Taafe Hastings, New Zealand, A.S.C.

W. Taisher Brown

A.B. Taylor

R.H.R. Taylor

Telifr

Tommy Thomas 231 Squardron

L.P. Thompson

J. Toddard

T.C. Tyeson 67 Squadron

G.D. Val

Jack Vendles

Edward Victor 2.2.39

J. Walker

 

E. Wallis

E.M. Walton

J. Ward

Bryan Watson 12.9.39

Eva Watson

J. Webster 19.1.41

Roy Webster D Crew

J.F. Westwood

R. Whillsden

A.D. White

L. Whitely

H.M. Whittles

Johnney Willis

G. Wilkinson

S. Wilkinson 1939

L.Wilson

L. Wiltshire

R. Winship

F. W. Wood 408 Squadron

Frankie Yates 12th May

 

Allan H. Walsh

Bill Ward

J.C. Waterhouse

R. Watson

Percy Webb 28.4.48

Ray Webster S.S. Dundley

R. G. Wenley

J. Wett I Parkhead, Glasgow

Chally Whit

Kay White

G.C. Whittick

Biddy Williams

L.A. Willmott

Roger Wilkinson

J.H. Wilson

Terry Wilson

L. Winn

Terry the Wolfe 231 Squadron

Charles Wydd



-- Edited by Halifaxbomber on Friday 20th of March 2009 06:52:15 AM

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K for Kitty Crew

Date:
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Well Done Jim,

Must be a large mirror, mate. Better still, must have been an even larger notepad !

John

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Leading Aircraftsman

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Posts: 6
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I recognise K Fahy. The same name appeared on the back of one of my Dad's photos when he was training during WW2. I dont imagine there were too many K Fahys!

Ali Jardine.

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Air Commodore

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Posts: 206
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Ali (Alison), what was your Dad's full name? I seem to remember somebody named Jardine from my Air Force days. What SAquadron was he on and what did he do on the station?

John

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John A. Neal


Leading Aircraftsman

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Posts: 6
Date:
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Hi there.
My Dad's name was not Jardine but Dennis Hiscox.

Ali

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Squadron Leader

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Posts: 50
Date:
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Seeing Norman Jackson name there with V.C.has me a little confused.

He was shot down April 1944 and his award was invested in November of 1945. I presume the mirror says Norman Jackson without the V.C. being on the mirror as he would have signed it prior to receiving the award.

I understand there is a pub in Cambridge, possibly "The Eagle" that also has Bomber Command Crew signatures, this time on the ceiling. I would be interested in seeing that list too.

Thanks for posting that Halifaxbomber.

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Veni, Vidi, Velcro...I came, I saw, I stuck around

 

Researching my father's time with 50 Squadron, 97 Squadron, Dulug Luft, Stalag Luft VI, Stalag 357, and Stalag Luft III.  http://wallyswar.wordpress.com/

 

 



Air Commodore

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Posts: 206
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The subject of Airmen's signatures is an interesting one, and I know of another way in which they are displayed. A Lady, Shiela Barnett of Oxfordshire has produced what she calls a "Friendship Cloth". She has embroidered the signatures of Bomber Command Airmen onto a large cloth, complete with other decorations. To date, she has more than 1000 signatures.

Shiela was a young Lady who lived close to Middleton St. George during the war years. She became fascinated by us flying out every night. After the war, she became an Accountant and got the job at the St. George's Hotel, the former Officer's Mess (where I lived when on the Squadron). She became a historian for the station, and then started the cloth. Most of the signatures are from #6 Group of the Command and I helped her get some of them from over here.

Shield wanted to place the cloth in a Canadian Air Museum when finished, but none she approached wanted to allow the wall space. So, it sits in Oxfordshire. I would like to get the loan of it for the #419 Squadron reunion at Cold Lake, Alberta, this July. But, I have had no response from Shiela, and if anyone in the Oxfordshire region could help, I will forward Shiela's E-mail address.

Thank you

John

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John A. Neal
Judith Revill Collins

Date:
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Hello,

I noticed my Dad's name "Jim Revill" on the Mirror and wondered if you could tell me anything about it and if you might have known him.

Thank you.

Sincerely


Judith

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Anonymous

Date:
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hi my dad was bomber crew



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Leading Aircraftsman

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Posts: 5
Date:
RE: Betty's Bar, York
Permalink   


Hi Everyone with any interest in Bettys Bar, York - I am researching the social history of the cafe & would love to hear from anyone with any information or memories of having visited Bettys during the time they were stationed in the area [York, England] - I know Halifaxbomber did some great work listing all the names on the mirror in Bettys Bar elsewhere on here - but it would be great to hear from those who have memories of this time. THANK YOU!



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Anonymous

Date:
RE: Betty's
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Hi, my uncle- KD Cox 485 squadron New Zealand has his name on the mirror. Do you have any photos of the mirror?

Thanks

Mike Cox

email coxy@xtra.co.nz



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Dave davies

Date:
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Iam Dave Davies my farther was in 106 squadron early  40s dad played the piano at Betty's 



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RICHARD

Date:
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HI JIM WOULD YOU HAVE ROGER COULOMBE ,GERARD TREMBLAY , GEORGE DAYMOND, ED, TETHERIDGE, JOHN BRADBURY, STAN MACKENZIE ON YOUR LIST OF NAMES ON YOUR MIRROR



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Anonymous

Date:
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Hi Richard

Not been on this site for ages, just oassed by and saw your post, I put all the names on a post in this thread if you look at the early posts.

 

Cheers

Jim



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Anonymous

Date:
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Hello Jim,

Registered with flight over some issue with mirror in Betty's York - a spooky story to be written.

To cut a long story short - there are 3 lists of names to my knowledge; but one has been deciphered wrongly.

I just took an alphabetical list in sent to me by Yorkshire Air Museum who Betty's Staff said produced and supplied the two they had already, so now they have 3.

One is single column with reference numbers for each signature 1 to 600 +/-. The next is an earlier, also undated version with two columns. The third I just left there is a word processed alphabetical version in two columns reading left to right then down in alphabetical sequence.

I scanned mirror in the lower bar to 300 dpi JPEG and PDF, although I understand that there could be a middle section 12ft x 5ft in a crate at the Air Museum and intend to speak with both PR departments in a few moments.

Is the list you have in PDF format?

The erroneous listings are between those numbered 292, 293, 294 and 295 which states "Hutch" and "John Hutchinson" whereas I am informed, and as matches with the lead in storyline, the name "Mitch" Mitchinson from Downton Pensylvania who survived the war.

Obviously IIII = Hutch and IIII = Mitch if you compare the vertical downward strokes.

Can you help fill inn the answer to these questions and/or email a copy of the list?

 

Kind Regards,

KJW

 



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Lee Webster

Date:
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http://www.airmen.dk/o888100.htm My grandad on the mirror Roy Webster D crew



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Anonymous

Date:
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Hi KJW,

 

Can I have a copy of the list please? My grandmother's brother was part of 158 Squadron (whose picture is on the wall on the right of the mirror) and I think I can read his signature from the mirror, having visited today, however I am not sure. 

 

Could you please email the lists that you have to skw518@york.ac.uk please?

 

Kindest,

 

SKW



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C.O'Grady

Date:
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Hi Jim.Thanks for posting the list of names on the mirror! My dad, Alan O'Grady, was stationed at Linton-on-Ouse and was in the Thunderbird Squadron. He mentioned Betty's and the mirror and in the 80s I went and tried to find his name on the mirror. It was too dark and I remember thinking it was a shame they had it hidden downstairs in dim lighting. Anyway, I now know, thanks to you, that his name is not there. It is interesting, nonetheless, to read the names and wonder which of these men my dad may have known. 



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Squadron Leader

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Posts: 91
Date:
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Thanks for posting these names ! It must have been a lot of work. My Dad and his crew were stationed at Tholthorpe in '44 , but no luck finding their names. Fun checking though!  

           Jesse Coffey, Malcolm "Ding" Dingwall, Bob Bayne, Ken Hart , Digby "Jimmy" Willoughby, Ted Rutherglen, and Bob "Button" McWhirter. 

Cheers, Clint. 



-- Edited by Coffey on Friday 11th of March 2016 03:45:31 PM

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Anonymous

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My grandfathers name is on the mirror but it's not on the list H.J.Jones 



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Anonymous

Date:
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Halifaxbomber wrote:

Many of you will be aware of Betty's Cafe in York and its history of being a gathering place of Pilots and crews, from the local bomber stations around York, well Betty's has a mirror that became a focal point for the airmen to sign their names on, I now have a list of all the signatures on the mirror if anyone needs any names checking

Jim


 Benny sometimes known as Johnnie Bent



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Jane

Date:
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Hi, thanks for all your work gathering all the names on the mirror, that and all the responses make really interesting reading.  My dad John Holden (Curly)  used to frequent the bar when he was in bomber command but I am not sure which squadron. Apparently a number of his friends scratched their names into the mirror and I am wondering if his brother ever visited him as there is a W. Holden. His name was Walter. Thanks again.

Jane Holden



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Anonymous

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Hi Jim would you kindly check for my uncles name (426 squadron) JOHN ISAAC HOYLE

 

Many thanks & regards

 

 

JOHN SOULSBY



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Dave Brooks

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My father was also from 432 Squadron and some of the mementos he brought back is a list of signings from the mirror at Betty's Bar. If interested, I can send you this list.



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