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Post Info TOPIC: Op Schweinfurt 24/25 Feb 1944: 57 and 156 Sqn Losses
mikew156


Flight Lieutenant

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Date:
Op Schweinfurt 24/25 Feb 1944: 57 and 156 Sqn Losses
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In addition to my general interest in the operation to Schweinfurt on the night of 24/25 February 1944, I have particular interest in the lost aircraft detailed below.

 

I have gathered much of the publicly available information on these losses from Chorley, Kew, Hendon etc so I hope this will save people the trouble of quoting from those sources.

 

Lancaster ND454 GT-L 156 squadron               RAF Warboys

 

This Pathfinder aircraft crashed on the outbound flight to Schweinfurt on the 24th of February.

The main wreckage came down in fields near to the village of Schalbach (Moselle, Lorraine) where six of the crew were buried. Sgt Morton was buried in the village of Hirschland.

I would be particularly interested in information of the following men;

 

P/O Stanley NEIGHBOUR (Pilot) from north London. Son of Frederick and Mabel Neighbour.

Sgt. Harold EATON (F/Eng) from north London. Son of William and Ellen Eaton and husband of Elsie.

Sgt. Samuel HOPKINSON (W/Op) from Bolton. Son of Samuel and Susannah Hopkinson

 

The other members of the crew were; F/Sgt LC Pillinger, Sgt GW Rugg, P/O RE Whitebeard, Sgt FR Morton.

 

Lancaster JB565 DX-I               57 squadron     RAF East Kirkby

 

This aircraft also crashed in Alsace on the outbound flight to Schweinfurt after being set ablaze by a nightfighter.

Five of the crew managed to escape with one evading.

I would be particularly interested in information of the following men;

 

F/O Norman HARLAND (Pilot) from Darlington               POW

Sgt. Charles LEVERS (F/Eng) from Nottinghamshire                  POW

F/Sgt. Thomas LIGHTFOOT (Nav) from north Wales. Son of Maurice and Emily Lightfoot.   Killed

Sgt. Lawrence LE MOAL (A/G) from White Star Saskatchewan, Canada              POW

 

The other members of the crew were; F/Sgt FA Greenwell, F/O JC Holland, Sgt FC Butler.

 

Any information would be most gratefully received.
Mike



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leslie


Squadron Leader

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Hi Mike
Go to the www.156squadron.com. Go to the search crew data base and type in the pilots name.  It will give you all the ops they flew and more.  You can also review the Squadron orbs there.  Tons of information and one of the best websites around.
Leslie


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mikew156


Flight Lieutenant

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Thanks Leslie for the reply.

Perhaps I should elaborate a little more on the status of my research being, as I am, a frequent visitor to Robin Riley's excellent 156 Sqn website.
My grandmother's first husband was LC Pillinger and for several years I have been researching him and his crew and have exhausted most avenues of enquiry available to me including tracing next of kin.
The Neighbour crew were at 166 Sqn from October to December 1943 before completing the brief navigation course at Upwood then moving on to Warboys.
They had proven themselves to be capable Pathfinders and I believe that they were tasked with primary blind marking of Schweinfurt so were probably at the head of the stream. Three Pathfinders (including ND454) from the first of this two wave attack
were brought down in a relatively small area SE of Metz.

Of the crew of JB565, I have had the priviledge to have met John Holland (W/Op) and also the evader Fred Greenwell (B/A - since passed away).
I know that Norman Harland, Charles Levers and [I believe] Lawrence Le Moal have passed away.
Harland and Le Moal sustained injuries from their parachute falls and were taken to a hospital (Lazarett) in Strasbourg from where they tried to escape. 

Thanks again

Mike 

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leslie


Squadron Leader

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Hi Mike
I'm afraid I can't help you with much more.  My father was also on the Schweinfurt operation out of 156 as a Primary blind marker.  His name is F/L Elmer John Trotter.
Some of his story is also on Robin's website.  I have just published our book about his wartime service.  This is his recounting of the Schweinfurt operation.
"February 24 our target was Schweinfurt, Germany's main ball bearing factories. Our job was Primary blind marker.  While the target was clear, searchlights lit up the sky and there was heavy flak.  Seven hundred and thirty four aircraft carried out this first attack by Bomber Command on this city.  We were to attack in two waves, separated by a two hour interval, which was something new to us.  A total of thirty three aircraft and crews were lost on this raid including three of the crews from 156 Squadron: Wing Commander E.F. Porter, Pilot Officer S.W.G.Neighbour and Flight Lieutenant J.A.Day."

Leslie

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Anonymous

Date:
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Hi, 

I am related to Lawrence J LeMoal, who parachuted out of the bomber, and ended up a POW. I would like to follow up and compare notes. Are you still active on the site? 



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mikew156


Flight Lieutenant

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Hello to Lawrence's relative.

Great to hear from you and would like to hear more.

I look forward to exchanging some information.

Only the other week I was with the sons of John Holland and Fred Greenwell from JB565 - they will be very interested also.

Please feel free to email me at : michael.wright30@tesco.net

Regards

Mike 



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mikew156


Flight Lieutenant

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57 Sqn Air Gunners
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Hello

Any information about these 57 Sqn air gunners would be greatly appreciated.

F/Sgt ER Armstrong
Sgt JF Willis

Both had previously flown with F/O Harland.
I assume Willis to be John Frederick Willis (2208994).
Died 19th April 44, buried in BURY CEMETERY, REDVALES.
5 Group (presumably with 57 Sqn) operated to Juvisy that night - 1 Lancaster lost.
Perhaps he was a casualty on a returning Lancaster.

I assume Lawrence LeMoal was a stand in for Willis on the 24th of February so I'm wondering what crew he may have arrived at 57 Sqn with (or from what HCU).
I don't have any aircrew postings pages from 57's ORB and I haven't yet taken a look at East Kirkby's ORB (the AIR28 file).

Thanks

Mike



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MikeH


Air Vice Marshall

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Date:
RE: Op Schweinfurt 24/25 Feb 1944: 57 and 156 Sqn Losses
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Hi Mike,

I have information regaring the Luftwaffe claim for Lancastrer JB565, but you may have this already.

 

Regards,

Mike H



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mikew156


Flight Lieutenant

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Hello Mike

Thanks for the offer.

I do have the Loss Card and F/Sgt Greenwell's Loss of Operational Aircraft (K) report.

Also I have had the privilege of meeting Fred Greenwell and John Holland, though both are no longer with us.

Can't remember the name of the pilot who was credited with bringing JB565 down but it's in my files at home.

Any information that you'd be kind enough to share will be very appreciated.

Regards

Mike W

 



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MikeH


Air Vice Marshall

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Hi Mike,

24/25 February 1944

Ofw. Reinhard Kollak: 35          8./NJG4       Lancaster           S.E.  Metz      22.10           57 Sqn Lancaster JB565

(source: Nachtjagd War Diaries Vol 1,  Theo Boiten).

 

Regards,

Mike H

 

 

 



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mikew156


Flight Lieutenant

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Hi Mike

Theo Boiten sent me a document several years ago which attempted to marry Luftwaffe claims with lost bombers from that night.

In it he has suggested JB565 was most likely shot down by Oberfeldwebel Fritz Schellwat;

Ofw. Fritz Schellwat: 17     6./NJG1          Lancaster    S.E. Saverne: 5.000 m.  22.20

The crash location of JB565 was between Crastatt and Reutenbourg, south east of Saverne (Alsace).

Perhaps this was to be included in a revised edition of his Nachtjagd War Diaries.

Local historians also give Schellwat as the Luftwaffe pilot.

Thanks for looking.

Mike W

 



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mikew156


Flight Lieutenant

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P/O Stanley Neighbour                       Pilot                                   aged 22; from London

Sgt Harold Eaton                               Flight Engineer                    aged 34; from London

Sgt George Rugg                               Navigator                           aged 20; from London

Flt Sgt Leonard Pillinger                     Air Bomber                         aged 22; from Bristol

Sgt Samuel Hopkinson                       Wireless Operator               aged 21; from Bolton

Pilot Officer Roy Whitebeard               Air Gunner                         aged 20; from Southern Rhodesia

Sgt Frank Morton                              Air Gunner                         aged 21; from London


 

70 years ago today....

At 18:34 hours on the 24th of February 1944, Lancaster ND454 took off from RAF Warboys at the head of the first attack destined for Schweinfurt.

734 Lancasters, Halifaxes and Mosquitoes were despatched to Schweinfurt in two waves, with more than 300 other aircraft employed on support and diversionary sorties.

Late that evening, ND454 and six of its crew plummeted into a field on the outskirts of the village of Schalbach, the likely victim of a nightfighter.

Sgt Frank Morton, the rear gunner, had managed to escape from the aircraft but was unable to survive the fall. His body was found some distance from the main wreckage and he was taken for burial in the nearby village of Hirschland, on the border of the two départments of Alsace and Lorraine.

My estimate is that 185 Allied airmen were killed that night and 70 were made prisoners-of-war.

Among the rewards that I have experienced during my research, I recall the special honour of helping a lady to remember Stanley Neighbour and to send her a photograph of him;  they had been dating at the time that he was killed.

I have also worked closely with others in research of two other losses in eastern France at about the same time as ND454 was lost.

Lancaster JB565 of 57 Squadron crashed near to Wasselone and Crastatt, in Alsace.

The captain was F/O Harland and the two crewmen who were killed were Flt Sgt Thomas Lightfoot and Sgt Francis Butler. They were buried in the village of Reutenbourg.

The bomb aimer of this aircraft was Fred Greenwell, who was one of the evaders, and the wireless operator was John Holland. I had the privilege of meeting both of these men and it is a great shame that both are no longer with us. Fred was one of three evaders from the Schweinfurt losses.

In 2007 it was an honour to join John Holland and his family at the inauguration of a memorial commemorating the loss of JB565 and the liberation of Wasselone. During that time I met Pierre Herrbach, Robert Bernard and Etienne Barthelmé, and later, had extensive correspondence with Jean-Paul Unbekandt and Gerard Helbourg; these historians and researchers represent the spirit of the people of Alsace and Lorraine to remember and honour the servicemen who fell in the cause of their liberation. Bien amicalement tous le monde.

Lancaster LL797 of 626 Squadron crashed near to the village of Marsal on what would have been the majority of its crews last sortie of their tours.

The captain was F/O Jack Hutchinson DFC RAAF; all eight men on board perished.

It's been my great pleasure to meet and correspond with the son of Hector Binder from this crew and to work with Adrian Lee and Matt Giles in research on the crews backgrounds and the circumstances of their loss.

 

I'd like to make a special mention of the help and friendship that Andrée Traxel of Sarrebourg has given not only to myself but to many veterans and families. At the age of 90, she still demonstrates the press on spirit that she so admires.

My thanks also to all those who have helped me in my research during the last ten years including Gordon Leith (RAF Museum), Theo Boiten, Mark Charnley, Norbert Vollmann and the owners, administrators and members of forums such as bombercrew.com.

Needless to say that I would be very pleased to hear from anyone with connections to any of the aircrew from ND454, JB565 or LL797. I would particularly like to re-establish contact with relatives of Roy Whitebeard, Stanley Neighbour and George Rugg.

 

Best regards.

Mike

 



-- Edited by mikew156 on Monday 24th of February 2014 12:08:28 PM



-- Edited by mikew156 on Monday 24th of February 2014 12:09:42 PM



-- Edited by mikew156 on Monday 24th of February 2014 12:10:17 PM

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Peter Gilbert

Date:
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My father sgt.1178418 James Walter Gibert was a crew member of Lancaster JB479 serial GT-K piloted by S/Ldr Eric Porter was also on this raid,their aircraft was also shot down,there were no survivors .If anyone has any information I would be grateful if contact could be made. Peter Gilbert (son).



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Mark Taylor

Date:
RE: Op Schweinfurt 24/25 Feb 1944: 57 and 156 Sqn Losses, JB565, TJ Lightfoot
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Mike et al',

My name is Mark Taylor and Sgt (Nav) TJ (Jim) Lightfoot of 57 Sqn was my great uncle. I came across Fred Greenwell's name in Cruel Crossing and was interested to try and find a copy of his book....any ideas?  I have given a number of letters and photos to the Museum at East Kirkby where they had flow from 24th Feb '44 including a letter from the pilot, Norman Harland, describing the evacuation of the aircraft after they had been hit. Jim's mother (Mrs Lightfoot) lived until 1979 when I was 19 but had never been able to find out what had happened to Jim and Frank Butler despite visiting the area and their graves in 1961. Mrs Lightfoot lost her other son (Albert Bennett) later in 1944 in Belgium.  I've retrieved a good number of squadron records for 57 and Fred Greenwell's MI9 report says that he didn't know what happened to anyone else but I wonder if there is any light shed on their fate since that date; the landing terrain didn't sound great but then there was the obvious potential for a less than warm reception on landing.. As Jim's surviving next of kin I joined the 57-630 Squadrons Association which meets several times each year and enjoys the gracious support of the current RAF 57 Sqn. I'd be very pleased to hear of any other personal connections, perhaps to host surviving next of kin of the JB565 crew at a 578-630 dinner... The son in law of Frank Butler tried to contact me last year but left no return contact details. I am sorry to hear that I have lost the chance to meet the other crew .... on this side of The Jordan anyway. My wife and I plan to visit the graves next year and it would be of great value to hear from anyone with any background info'.  Good wishes, Mark



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mikew156


Flight Lieutenant

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Date:
Op Schweinfurt 24/25 Feb 1944: 57 and 156 Sqn Losses
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Hello Mark

 

Nice to hear from you and interesting to read of your connections and investigations.

 

I've been to East Kirkby several times but have not seen the items that you describe. 

I hope that you kept copies as I would be very interested to see and read them.

Have you seen the photos of Fred Greenwell in the evader's exhibition?

 

I'm more than happy to share the information that I have so far gathered.

This includes the Loss of Aircraft report that followed Fred's debrief on return to England.

Also, PoW records for the other survivors.

 

I've informed the son John Holland about your message. 

He visited Alsace with his father on several occasions.

 

Best regards and I look forward to hearing from you again.

 

Mike

You can find my email address in my forum profile - might need to be a registered user on the forum though. 

 



-- Edited by mikew156 on Wednesday 21st of October 2015 02:30:25 PM

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Mark Taylor

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Mike...that's just great to hear back so quickly.... yes, of course I'd be interested to follow up...

I'm still turning the handle at work currently but will be happy to suss out how this discussion board works and load up data if that's possible or maybe easier to exchange off line.

ATB

M



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mikew156


Flight Lieutenant

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RE: F/O Harland's crew
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Hi Mark

 

Looking at the information I have from 57 Sqn's Operations Record Book, I see F/Sgt

Lightfoot flew for the first time with Harland on the 27/28 Jan 44.

Do you have any information of any ops that he flew before this or any other service record details?

 

I see Harland, Levers, Greenwell, Holland, Armstrong, and Butler on a Berlin raid on the 2/3 Jan 44.

I looks like it was F/Sgt HE Crawford as navigator for this one.

 

On the 16/17 Dec 43, Harland's crew for another Berlin raid was;

Levers Greenwell, Holland, Armstrong, Butler with P/O KA Clarke as navigator.

With the exception of Levers, this was the crew that appeared in the 29 O.T.U. ORB for 

an attack on gun positions on the night of 8/9 Sept 43.

 

It would be interesting to discover why there was a need to change navigators later when on 57 Sqn.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

You can contact me using

mwam<dot>156<AT>btinternet.com



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Mark Taylor


Aircraftsman 1st Class

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RE: Op Schweinfurt 24/25 Feb 1944: 57 and 156 Sqn Losses
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Much obliged Mike.... Yes it looked as though was a bit of jockeying around in crew composition ... and I  noticed from the MI9 report that Fred Greenwell had been unable to name all the crew possibly reflecting the changes..... although after that experience I'm hardly surprised. Thank you for your email address...I'll be in touch shortly with the details. I've a copy of Jim's service record with a few comments which I'm not able to unpack...

ATB

Mark



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mikew156


Flight Lieutenant

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RE: Lightfoot and Greenwell
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Hi Mark

I'll be most interested to hear some details about 'Jimmy' Lightfoot's service record.

As he didn't arrive on 57 Sqn with Harland's crew, there must be some intriguing details to come to light.

On the 'Loss of Aircraft' report (a.k.a. K report), all the crew are correctly identified.

F/Sgt Lightfoot is recorded as having been "on about [his] 15th operation".

He and Butler are also recorded as "fate unknown"

The report followed Fred Greenwell's debrief by the Operational Research Section and is dated 26th July 1944.

His M.I.9 evader debrief report (appendix C) is dated 7th July 1944. He had arrived in Hendon from Gibraltar on the 24th of June.  

I'll send these documents as soon as I have your email address.

Regards

Mike



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Mark Taylor


Aircraftsman 1st Class

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RE: Op Schweinfurt 24/25 Feb 1944: 57 and 156 Sqn Losses
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Hi Mike...I've sent three emails with attachments across to you ...pls let me know if they don't arrive via this post. M



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mikew156


Flight Lieutenant

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Hello again

 

24th of February again, and the anniversary of the two wave Bomber Command attack on the town of Schweinfurt.

Among the Bomber Command aircrew who lost their lives this night in 1944 was the 22 year old husband of my grandmother, Leonard Charles Pillinger.

 

Little progress on my research of the crew of ND454 to report but Mark's contact has led to more revelations of the crew of JB565 and, of course, we now know much more about its navigator Thomas 'Jimmy' Lightfoot.

 

Jimmy Lightfoot arrived on 57 Sqn as part of F/Sgt V.D. Evans' crew.

They had previously spent some time on 97 Sqn straight after 1654 H.C.U.

I believe it was unusual for a crew to be posted to a PFF squadron direct from training, though I note from the ORB that not all of the squadron was tasked with target marking and were therefore described as main force.

Here is the crew that arrived from 97 Sqn on the 31st August 1943.

 

F/S Evans VD          Pilot

F/S Neary C             Flight Eng

Sgt Lightfoot TJ        Nav

Sgt Edgecombe GE   Air Bomber

Sgt Martin F             Wireless Operator

Sgt Higgins F            Air Gunner

Sgt Pole AL               Air Gunner

 

I know that George Edgecombe was killed at the end of January whilst with 463 Sqn.

Francis Martin was also killed in January having rejoined 97 Sqn.  

To expand the story of the crew of JB565 it would be good to learn of any details about this 97 Sqn crew that's not available from the usual sources e.g. ORBs, Chorley, CWGC. Hoping to save you the trouble.

 

Thanks for reading. 

 

Mike



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MikeH


Air Vice Marshall

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Hi,

I wondered if you have checked out these combat reports submitted by air gunners; Sgt's Higgins and Pole (11/06/43  & 24/06/43).

 

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_ln=higgins&_ttl=&_crp=97&_sd=&_ed=&discoveryCustomSearch=true&_cr1=AIR+50&_col=200&_dt=CR&_hb=tna

 

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_ln=pole&_ttl=&_crp=97&_sd=&_ed=&discoveryCustomSearch=true&_cr1=AIR+50&_col=200&_dt=CR&_hb=tna

 

Regards,

Mike H

 

 



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Anonymous

Date:
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Hi Mike

Thanks for the reminder about combat reports.

I'd forgotten about them.

Mike



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Peter Gilbert Davison

Date:
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Can I ask the people who knew Fred Greenwell could I ask was he from the North East? In particular Seaham? If so and he he is one of the same he is My great Uncle is Frederick Augustus Greenwell from this flight and he wrote a book regarding his exploits from the escape back to blighty. I'll have a rake and see what I can find was an interesting read with maps too. 

Hope that this helps 

Regards

Pete D



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mikew156


Flight Lieutenant

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Hello Peter and thanks for your message.

I can certainly confirm that your great uncle was from the north east of England.

I visited him at his home on Houghton-le-Spring in 2014, just a few months before he passed away.

That day he was certainly full of enthusiasm that my recent visit to France had stirred up and it was a great pleasure for me to listen to him.

Subsequently we exchanged many emails and he sent me a copy of his evasion account which is fascinating.

I have images of the MI9 report that was filed following his debrief on return to the UK.

If you can leave your email address via my profile (whiteboard or P.M.), I'll send copies. 

Best regards

 

Mike



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Navy Pete D

Date:
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Hi im the great nephew of Fred A Greenwell. I may have something which may be useful for you. Fred actually had a book produced and it gives a detailed explanation of his experience whilst evading in France but one of the niceties is that the book has maps/routes etc he took. I can't remember where I've seen it whether I've got it or my Dad does. I'll give you a shout once I know more matey. Hope this helps

I want to make my tree interesting  I want information where possible to show that these people in our families past are heroes in their own right so that they arent forgotten

 

Mike can you give me any relevant information in regards to Fred as I'm doing our family tree on ancestry 

Regards

Pete D



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Navy Pete D

Date:
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Hi Mike

Sorry for the multiple replies been a touch unwell getting a bit confused as it seems mmm. My email address is peternchris2000@yahoo.com  Im still looking for the book for you, ive a scanner as soon as i have found it ill get a copy to you if that would help??

 

In advance thank you for your help it is appreciated. The Greenwells and other associated family names are definitely turning out to be very interesting

Regards

Peter Davison



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Navy Pete D

Date:
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Hi Mike

This is an unrelated query from Fred.

Mike, can you please advise if you know how I could initiate a trace for my grandfather who was also in the RAF ive obviously got his name date of birth, birthplace etc but I don't have anything else to go on such as his service number etc. I know he served in Egypt possibly a sergeant ive seen photos of him with Lancasters and merlins

Again any help greatly appreciated matey

Regards

Pete D



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sunnysunny


Leading Aircraftsman

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I appreciate it!. I really like it when people get together and share ideas. Great website continue the good work!.
shell shockers unblocked


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