424 Squadron October 2/3, 1943

B Olson · Leading Aircraftsman

424 Squadron October 2/3, 1943

karlkj · Aircraftsman 1st Class

Just saw your uncles name in the book "They shall grow not old" by Les Allison and it says he was in

Wellington HE795

You should check in "Bomber Command war Losses" - 1943 volume by CHORLEY, to see if it is listed by date and serial number.

Do not have access to Chorleys now but will next week.

Do not expect much as the sea rarely gives up its secrets unless there was a rescue/survivors/wreckage or maybe German reports.

Sorry for so little info.

Cheers, Karl

Bill Walker · Warrant Officer

From my notes, HE795 was coded "QB*F".

matt · Air Vice Marshall

karlkj wrote:

Just saw your uncles name in the book "They shall grow not old" by Les Allison and it says he was in

Wellington HE795

You should check in "Bomber Command war Losses" - 1943 volume by CHORLEY, to see if it is listed by date and serial number.

Do not have access to Chorleys now but will next week.

Do not expect much as the sea rarely gives up its secrets unless there was a rescue/survivors/wreckage or maybe German reports.

Sorry for so little info.

Cheers, Karl

Strange, it does not register on the Lost Bomber's site or Richard's Six Group site. I wonder if the dates are correct.

B Olson · Leading Aircraftsman

Thanks,

I too checked the Lost Bombers website. Perhaps it only covers RAF squadron losses and not RCAF? It would be great to get a hold of some sort of 424 Squadron operations log from their N. Africa period.

I made some notes when I last visited my Great Aunt. She has Jerome's log book and other documents returned to her upon his death. A photo of Jerome and his sister (Caroline Dauk, Lieutenant RCMAC) are attached.

His last entry was dated September 25, 1943, flying Wellington LN433 (non combat). His first and only bombing mission before his death was dated September 22/23, 1943, flying Wellington HF582. This was also a night bombing mission targeting Formia, Italy ("road junction") as was the mission he was reported lost a few days later. I've seen original RCAF correspondence mailed to his parents clearly stating his death on October 2, 1943 on a bombing mission, Formia Italy.

His log book also shows many training flights recorded with pilot Martin flying Wellington HE795. As both are reported to have died on October 2, 1943, It fits well with the note from karlkj that he was flying HE795 the night he died. According to family lore, he was considered officially missing for several months, maybe even a year, before he was formally confirmed dead.

I just received a newspaper article reporting that another from the crew, Edward Francis Warr, was reported missing in the Middle East - unfortunately, I can't make out the newspaper title or date (attached). Again, I've located reports that he died October 2, 1943.

Ironically, I uncovered that the 424 squadron changed wing commanders the following day on October 3, 1943. Clearly there was a lot of transition happening at this time as the squadron moved to the UK following the Allied invasion of Italy.

Rank          Name                   From                         To
W/C    G.A. Roy                      April 17,1943            October 02,1943
W/C    J.P. McCarthy D.7.C.    October 03,1943      November 29,1943

-- Edited by B Olson on Wednesday 30th of September 2009 09:47:15 PM

matt · Air Vice Marshall

Brian,

You will likely need to acces the 424 Squadron Operational Record Books in order to clear this up. Odds are that its been missed by lostbombers.co.uk since the Op was conducted from North Africa.

BTW, I have some photos of 424 sqn in Tunisia on my site.

http://www.bombercrew.com/434/gallery/424gallery.htm

Let me know if you would like to post your uncle's photo to the Gallery.

matt

Bill Walker · Warrant Officer

424 Squadron was under 331 Wing, 205 Group, Mediterranean Air Command while in Tunsia, so losses from this period won't show up in Chorley''s books about Bomber Command losses. The Lost Bombers web page appears to just use information from Chorley's Bomber Command Losses series.

The operational records of most RCAF overseas units are available on microfilm from Library and Archives Canada, on interlibrary loan through your local Canadian public library. Talk to the librarian there about how to order them. They will need to know the unit and the time period you are interested in. In my experience it can take up to 2 months to get the microfilm delivered to your local branch - you need to be patient!

-- Edited by Bill Walker on Saturday 3rd of October 2009 10:17:37 AM

richard.k · Flight Sergeant

Hello Brian. I have the ORB for 424 Squadron. There is very little written about most operations. All it says is they took off at 19:43 hous in Wellington HE-795 coded "F" and nothing had been heard since. They were carrying 9 x 500 lb bombs. One other crew went missing also. They sent out a radio message that they had engine problems. This crew was picked up after ditching by an American Destroyer. Observations by returning crews on this operation state that there was practically no flak or searchlights in the target area and no night figthers were seen. Crews also claim the weather was very bad going to and from the target with better weather at the target. This makes it hard to figure what may of happened to this aircraft but weather may of been a factor.
Hope this helps.

B Olson · Leading Aircraftsman

Richard

Thanks so much - this is exciting news indeed. How does one go about obtaining the actual transcripts of the ORB for this date or even for the months that 424 Squadron was stationed in Tunisia?

I have found accounts of other bombing raids on Formia around this date from the US forces. They were described as "milk runs" without any resistance - this matches well with the 424 squadron ORB accounts.

I am also now wondering if there may still be any 424 squadron veterans still alive from this period who may have known Jerome, his crew or even have memories of what would be his last mission. I imagine that ditching a heavy bomber in the Mediterranean, surviving and then being rescued by a US warship might make it more memorable than most.

Regards,

Brian