Can any of our forum members tell me what the rank would be of an airman (not aircrew) having the stripes of a corporal with some other insignia immediately above the srtipes, (??) as you would see on the sleeve of a Flt Sgt where you have the three stripes and a crown. If anyone knows what this rank is, can you then tell me what the insignia is above the stripes. Thx, Bill.
Hi Alan, No this is in a photograph and the shoulder flash shows an eagle usually indicating RAF. (one on each shoulder BOTH facing the rear). But lower down on the sleeve where you would normally see the NCO stripes is this two stripe (corporal) with something just above. The photgraph is taken from a distance so it is very hard to make out what it is, but there is definately something there. I'm beginning to wonder if perhaps it might be another branch of the service (RAF Regiment??) Thanks for your reply, I'll keep trying from here, I might just get lucky somehow
Hi William, Could it possibly be a RAF Military Police ensignia. I am not sure if the emblem is above or below the "Bars" you can discount this if there is no white top to the cap. Dont know if this helps. Regards, Gary
I believe that 'trade' badges would have been in this position. For example, wireless operators wore a badge showing a fist clutching lightening bolts.
I'm not certain when exactly the minimum NCO rank of Sgt. was set for aircrew but it wasn't uncommon for Cpl. NCO rank to serve as aircrew in the early years and their trade badge was worn in the described location. I've seen pictures of the fist and sparks of Wireless Ops above the chevrons and below the shoulder Eagle and also the brass bullet of qualified Air Gunners which carried over from pre-war until the creation of the winged brevet became the standard. There may have been others as well. Does magnification help and we can take another stab at it?
I want to thank those who have passed on their thoughts on the above . In taking another few CLOSE looks at this photograph and while the actual item in question is Still not clear I think I wouold have to agree with those who say that this is a trade indicator. It would appear that there is no other explanation. I still wonder at what point in time did the trade brevets come into play, does anyone know? this info MIGHT help to date the photogrpah.
I'm not entirely certain of the RAF insignia but I believe most of the wings and brevets of the PNB scheme inclusive of WAG wings came into effect sometime around 1942. There were apparently some different issues and modification in the shape, number and appearance of the feathers, etc. probably based more on manufacturing issue than anything else.
My understanding is the "O" brevet of Observer was replaced by the "N" around 1943. The Pilot's full wings and the other aircrew trade half wing brevets were worn above the left breast on uniform & battledress. Rank insignia of N.C.O.s (LAC, Sgt. Flt. Sgt. and W.O. 2nd & 1st) were on the sleeve above the elbow. Commissioned Officers were identified with sleeve braid/bands.
RCAF, RAAF, RNZAF, etc. wings differed in the addition (or not) of the King's crown and lettering and maybe in colour of laurel.
The only trade indentification that I've ever seen in the location you describe (aside from the propellor of LAC) is the fist and sparks of a WO or the aforementioned winged brass bullet of the prewar air gunner.
Just a suggestion but what about a 'Goldfish Club' brevet? I think it consisted of a winged goldfish above a couple of wave lines ...
Aside from that what about a Caterpillar badge?
I don't know if either of those were officially issued and sanctioned for uniform or battledress adornment and I don't know if they were located on the sleeve.
Not much help I'm afraid but maybe more food for thought ...
I suspect there must still be documents accessible that outline all the King's Regs and Air Ministry Orders for proper dress code and approved badges as well as their placement. Most Service uniform regs are quite specific in that regard.
My uncle had a number of stripes (5) in just such a position, perhaps upside down ! They were smaller than the usual ones and were red. Good conduct or some such.
