My three rellos

PeteT · Wing Commander

My three rellos

AW · Air Commodore

Hi,

I've checked the London Gazette with no success, also tried the N/A for Service numbers but that drew a blank as well, owing to the fact that they were RNZAF. Best bet is to try and get their Service Records, which will show which units they were with. Go here to see how

http://www.nzdf.mil.nz/personnel-records

-- Edited by AW on Sunday 17th of February 2013 05:47:21 AM

Mad Mac · Leading Aircraftsman

Hi,

Does anyone know anything about the service career of my uncle Ewen Elmslie and cousins James Elmslie and Dan Sneddon. James was a pilot, Ewen was a navigator and I'm not sure what Dan was. All served in RAF Bomber command in WW2. Is there a search engine where I can just plug their names in and get some details? (Google is no help).

Cheers,

Mac

Mad Mac · Leading Aircraftsman

Thanks for that. All three were New Zealanders and all survived the war.
Mac

fwx · Corporal

Looks like Ewen and James both served with 75 (NZ) Squadron:

ELMSLIE P/O Ewen McGregor RNZAF (NZ417200) AB (Bomb Aimer) 9 May to 27 Nov 1943. c/w A W Burley.

ELMSLIE F/Sgt James Alexander RNZAF (NZ422048*) Pilot 30 Sep to 23 Nov 1944. c/w J C Bateman as 2P then own crew.

What was Dan Sneddon's full name?

Cheers, Chris

*EDIT: Corrected as per Wayne's post below.

-- Edited by fwx on Sunday 17th of February 2013 10:16:22 PM

fwx · Corporal

Hi again Mac,

My uncle served with 75 (NZ) Sqdn, arriving at RAF Mepal just after your cousin James left.

I would recommend visiting Simon Sommerville's great new website at http://75nzsquadron.com. He is gathering personal 'stories' of 75 (NZ) Sqdn groundcrew and aircrew to go with his Dad's story, and this is becoming a fantastic resource for anyone interested in this period.

Any photos, documents or memories that you can share via Simon's site will be greatly appreciated by the 75 community, and it is amazing how much can be learned from studying the various items that he has collected already. The more information and history we can preserve and make accessible, the more help we can be to people like yourself.

I would also suggest you have a look at joining 75 Sqdn Assn (www.75squadron-raf-rnzaf.com and http://www.facebook.com/groups/213227175365096/). Glen Turner, Kevin King and co., are very helpful, and have a great network of contacts. The Assn has recently written a full history of 75 Squadron that reproduces detail from the ORB's (Operational Record Books) and lists all known 75 Sqdn personnel.

I would also highly recommend two books written about 75 and Mepal during the time your cousin James was there, by a Pilot and Navigator respectively, Luck and a Lancaster, by Harry Yates DFC, and Bombs on Target, by Ron Mayhil DFC. They give you a great feel for the day-to-day life of bomber crews at Mepal in 1944-45. Yates' book mentions Doug Sadgrove in a couple of places.

I may also be able to help if you have specific questions.

-- Edited by fwx on Sunday 17th of February 2013 07:03:39 PM

-- Edited by fwx on Sunday 17th of February 2013 07:04:20 PM

Mad Mac · Leading Aircraftsman

Thanks.
I will try that.
Mac

fwx · Corporal

Hi Mac,

Email me at chrisATfoodworksDOTcoDOTnz.

(Replace AT with @, DOT with .)

Cheers

-- Edited by fwx on Sunday 17th of February 2013 11:50:24 PM

wayne · Flight Lieutenant

Hi Mac (and Hi Chris).

I hope you don't mind me jumping in here with a slight correction.

The service number quoted for James Alexander Elmslie is incorrect.

I think the number should be NZ422048. This is shown in the ORB for the arrival of the crew from No.31 Base. (30 September 1944)

NZ411048 belongs to F/O Keith Southward.

Hope this is helpful.

Wayne.

fwx · Corporal

Hi Wayne, Mac,

Thanks for picking that up Wayne, you're right - NZ422048 - I got as far as copying the ORB entries that I could find (only second dickie plus two op's??) but hadn't noticed the different service no.

Mac, I can email you details of those op's if you like.

Cheers, Chris

Mad Mac · Leading Aircraftsman

Thanks very much for all of your replies which are very helpful.
Thanks also Chris for your offer, which I would like to accept.
How can I send you a private message?
Cheers,
Mac

Mad Mac · Leading Aircraftsman

Hi again,

I am embarrassed to admit that I got the Sneddon name wrong. He was actually Walter Dalziel Sneddon (b1914-d1985) and he was in Bomber Command. I have a photo of him in uniform and another of him in a group of New Zealand airmen in Course No83 Class B, ...................(?) school. (The "......................" could be "bomb-aiming" but it is cut off the bottom of the photo, so not clear). Unfortunately the other 15 men in the photo are not named.

So I had three close relatives in RAF Bomber Command. Also my father was an RNZAF pilot officer in Singapore when the Japs invaded and another relative Malcolm Charles McGregor was a fighter ace in WW1 and went on to pioneer aviation in New Zealand after the war.

Mac

wayne · Flight Lieutenant

Hi Mac,

NZ425436 Flt/Sgt Walter Dalziel Sneddon was rear gunner with F/Off Cumberpatch and crew.

He did fly one op with W/Co R. Leslie and crew on 18 October 1944 to Bonn.

Chris may be able to send you more details as I'm one of the unfortunate people that can't get into their email account

with xtra due to them deleting all pass words.

Wayne.

fwx · Corporal

Thanks Wayne, this is getting very interesting!

So Walter was indeed on 75 (NZ) Sqdn, one of three first cousins that served with 75 at Mepal:

And he and the Cumberpatch crew arrived at Mepal the day after your other cousin James Elmslie!:

1 October 1944
Administration: NZ427543 P/O R. Cumberpatch and crew arrived on posting from 31 Base.

N.B. 31 Base was RAF Feltwell, where the 3 Group Lancaster Finishing School (3LFS) was located. This was the final training received by a crew before joining a 3 Group Lancaster bomber squadron.

Walter's crew was:

Captain: CUMBERPATCH Fg Off Raymond Arthur RNZAF (NZ427543) Pilot 1 Oct 1944 to 7 Feb 1945
Navigator: WILSON P/O Norman Frederick DFC, RAF. (1584666, 190665).
Flight Engineer: SINCLAIR Sgt J RAF.
Bomb Aimer: WILLIAMS P/O Clayton Dickson, RNZAF. (NZ4214070).
Wireless Operator: SWITZER P/O Lindsay Roy, RNZAF. (NZ422008).
Mid Upper Gunner: GRADY F/Sgt Tom RNZAF (NZ416829)
Rear Gunner: SNEDDON F/Sgt Walter Dalziel RNZAF (NZ425436)

Cumberpatch first went on his second dickie (2nd pilot familiarisation op') with F/O Martyn and his crew on 14 October 44 to Duisburg - the same op' that your cousin James and crew flew on. The Martyn crew flew in Lancaster NG113, coded AA-D.

Well spotted Wayne - very interesting that Jack Leslie took the crew minus Cumberpatch on an op' on 18 October! That was in Lancaster PB418, AA-C.

Then the full crew did their first op' together, a night attack on Stuttgart, on 19/20 October, flying Lancaster LM740, AA-B.

Walter shows in the Cumberpatch crew list for several op's up to and including the 20 November attack on Homberg, mostly flying HK576, AA-G.

Then on the 21 November (another op' to Homberg) F/L K. Tugwell is listed as Rear Gunner in the crew - Tugwell was a Gunnery Leader for 75 Sqdn, so may have been a short notice fill-in. Was Walter injured? That series of op's to Homberg was famously bad for 75.

From then until the end of the year a Sgt R. Muir RAF is listed as R/Gnr with the Cumberpatch crew. Haven't checked '45 yet.

Cheers, Chris

Mad Mac · Leading Aircraftsman

Thanks very much,
Thats very interesting. Its amazing that you can access such detailed info at short notice.
As far as I know Walter Sneddon was not wounded.
Cheers,
Mac

bgizmo · Flight Sergeant

Hi Mac
I apologise for coming to the discussion late!
Chris has already very generously mentioned my blog and project, so if you discover anything that you would like to share, please feel free to contact me, or even if you just want to talk about what I am doing and looking to achieve, on 75nzsquadronDOTcom. I look forward to hearing from you.

cheers

Simon