The effect you are referring to is called a strobescopic effect caused I believe by the stop frame imagery of filming.  This is the same reason why chuck wagon wheels in Old Western movies seem to spin backwards at times and appear at times to have stationary spokes when they should be rotating in one uniform direction.  It explains the differences in apparent propellor rotation but it's an illusion.  Watch an initial start up carefully and that will reveal the direction the props rotate.

Hi, My Dad was an air gunner in 514 Sqdn seeing active service in the last few months of the war, followed by Operation 'Manna' and 'Exodus'

I have his log book and I'm interested in finding out more about 514 Sqdn.

Mal

Hi my great great uncle Sydney Arthur picton he was a wireless operator his plane got shot down in Deinvillers.   dose any one have any info on him so far i know where he is burried .And for those that want to no more about 514 squadron here is the website they also have a facebook page to http://www.514squadron.co.uk/

Hello,

Reading your post, I searched and found this photo of a Lancaster where we can see the letters JI-E (alas we can't see the number)

JI-E was given to these 9 planes of the 514  according to the web site http://www.bomber-command.info/514sc.htm : DS786     DS796    LL653      LL697     LM181     LM265     LM275     ME380       NG118

You can find this photo here :    http://freespace.virgin.net/tracy.triumph/photogallery.html

This is a first step I hope helpful for your searches.

Best regards

Maillecolle

 Just received word that the plane in the Photo is LM181 Taken July 1944. I also came across a web site that I believe has Pictures of Wreckage found of LL653 but am unable to read it very well,Whereas it is written in French.  http://francecrashes39-45.net/page_fiche_av.php?id=988   Could you possibly have a look and let me know in general what it Say's.  Thank you so much for your info. Sincerely, James 

Hi,

I forgot to give you the forum address : http://usaaf.forumactif.com/t3007-debris-d-un-avro-lancaster

Even if this forum with many photos of remains is in French I'm sure you can write in English for a contact with the man who searches.

Best regards

 

Maillecolle

 

Thanks for the crew's operations list.

My searches are about LL690 who crashed down in my village. As I'm now retired and as we are close to winter.... I go on the investigations I begun 5 years ago about this plane.

It was like LL653 a Lancaster MKII and one  mystery is still existing : I'm wondering if there was a "belly turret" on the LL690. Do you know if there was one on LL 653 who was built in the same "serial" of MKII than LL690. According my informations this serial of 301 models of MKII with Armstrong Witworth motors (instead of Rolls Royce Merlin)were delivered to the Squadrons with "belly turrets".  This extra turret should be held by a 8th crew member, or both mid upper and belly turret should have been held by the mid upper gunner. The informations I got on the subject is that the base commander of 514 at  Waterbeach ordered to remove these turrets because they were a matter of extra weight. So when I read s that there is an extra crew member in a Lancaster I'm wandering wether it could be the "belly gunner".

So may be you could have this kind of information given by your Great Uncle ? 

Anyway if ever you have any document or informations about LL690 during your investiagations, it would be nice of you to send them to me. LL690 made 34 missions with several crews, the crew who fell with LL690 in my village had 22 missions (one of them aborted).

LL 690 and the crew subject of my research participated to the fatal mission of your great uncle Lawrence WRY on 15/3/44 over Stuttgart.

Regards

Maillecolle

 

 

Anonymous wrote:

---

Hello,

My name is Hannah and my Uncle was Ernest Kingham, the pilot of LL690. My mother, Ernest's sister. told me of a Frenchman who witnessed the wreckage and who later wrote to her father. My 8 year old son's teacher has asked if I would be able to tell the class about my Uncle and I would be very grateful if you could give me any information regarding that night and what you saw.

With many thanks and kind regards,

Hannah 

---

 Dear Hannah,

You can't imagine how I felt when I saw this post on the forum. I don't know how many forum I suscribed and how many letters I've sent to the supposed family I detected on the net with the name or Ernest Arthur Kingham since 5 years now. I'm not one of the witnesses of the wreckage (I'm 57) but my research about LL690 came from this story that my mother told me so numerous times when she heard the motors of the plane before he crashed 500 meters far from her house. I have many informations about LL 690 and I am desperatly looking for a photo of this Lancaster with the crew members in front of him. However to answer your question, I enclosed a document about a certain Mr Marlière who was the witness of the crash and who could have been the person you are talking about. There is still a living witness of the crash (Mr Ernest Capliez 93 yo that I met twice). He wrote  a book about the story of the village 30 years ago and he mentionned as follows (I translate with my own words : "By the night of June 16th 1944, two English aircrafts collapsed -when he wrote the book Mr Capliez ignored that LL690 was shot down by Oblt Peter Ehrardt- One of the crews made sacrifice of his life and rather than bailing out, the pilot guided the bomber far from Iwuy "shaving roofs" . He crashed down at the north east hedge of the village not far from a place called "The bridge mill".(E.Capliez  C. Colpart IWUY 1890/1990 Maulde et Renou Maubeuge 590/MB). When I met M Capliez he told me about the last moments of LL690 and he recalled the evidents efforts of your Great Uncle to avoid the houses of Iwuy. Another witness is still living Mr Alfred Trioux (88 yo) who helped to identified LL690 by sending a photograh of the navigator RH Hutt that he found in the vicinity of the crash site. He was hidden in a wheat field while the Germar were there to remove the remains of the Lancaster. I supposed that you know this web site but I give it to you just in case :http://www.aircrewremembered.com/raf1944/3/kinghamernest.html. It would be great if you could send me copies of photos of your Great Uncle, in a few month there will be an inauguration of a mediatheque (I'm not sure of the translation) here and I plan to expose for duty of memory the documents I have about this Heroïc unknown crew. Thanks for your help and you can ask me for any informations.

Best Regards

Maillecolle

 

Dear Maillecolle,

Thank you so much for your message and the attached documents. The frenchman who wrote to my Grandfather was Mr Marliere. I have now seen a copy of this letter and it is very interesting and poignant. I have seen photographs of my Uncle but none of the crew with their Lancaster. I will let you know if I find one but I will need the permission of Ernest's immediate family (i.e. his surviving brother and sisters) before I can pass any copies on. I hope to visit my Uncle's grave with my children this summer.   

Once again, thank you so much for your message.

With kind regards,

Hannah

Hi Jimlittlebear.

Seems we have something in common with this my friend. My Uncle Sgt Gilbert Cosgrove was also part of that fateful crew that night. He was the onboard Flt engineer (RAF). He is buried in grave number 5, next to your kin.

I was with my late father in the mid 1970's when we drove to France and visited the graves. It was a very very sad moment watching my dad in tears at his older brothers grave. He was only 12 years old when Gilbert was killed that night. It affected him deeply for the rest of his life.And It was the only visit he ever made to the grave.

We also spent a few days in the village with a lovely couple (Maurice and Yvette Jaques) who had lived all their lives in Villars le pautel and who were both children at the time of the crash. My Mum had brought some old b/w photos taken just after the war. Showing my Grandma and Grandad greeting with the local townspeople. This was whilst on a visit to the Gilberts grave funded in England by the Salvation Army. Amazingly Mr and Mrs Jaques were both in the photos as children with their families!

Even though they spoke no English and we spoke very little French, we still managed to find out quite a lot about what happened that night and the subsiquent military funeral that was given to the boys by the German army.

I also remember that we visited the lonely crash site with my dad and Mr Jaques. Who by coincidence, worked in the forest where the plane had came down. It was completely overgrown at the time but Mr Jaques still managed to pull a twisted hoop of metal from out of the undergrowth. It was the serrated gear track for the rear gun turret! He gave it to my Dad as a souveneer.  My dad treasured it for years but it sadly disappeared after he died.

I have seen the posts on the other website by the French guy who is collecting items from the plane. I have also tried to contact him via the french site but it wont allow me to register my details for some reason in order to do so!

Please do feel free to contact me if you know anything other about all this.

 

Best .. pete

 

 

Hi Jimlittlebear. Seems we have something in common with this my friend. My Uncle Sgt Gilbert Cosgrove was also part of that fateful crew that night. He was the onboard Flt engineer (RAF). He is buried in grave number 5, next to your kin. I was with my late father in the mid 1970's when we drove to France and visited the graves. It was a very very sad moment watching my dad in tears at his older brothers grave. He was only 12 years old when Gilbert was killed that night. It affected him deeply for the rest of his life.And It was the only visit he ever made to the grave. We also spent a few days in the village with a lovely couple (Maurice and Yvette Jacques) who had lived all their lives in Villars le pautel and who were both children at the time of the crash. My Mum had brought some old b/w photos taken just after the war. Showing my Grandma and Grandad greeting with the local townspeople. This was whilst on a visit to the Gilberts grave funded in England by the Salvation Army. Amazingly Mr and Mrs Jacques were both in the photos as children with their families! Even though they spoke no English and we spoke very little French, we still managed to find out quite a lot about what happened that night and the subsiquent military funeral that was given to the boys by the German army. I also remember that we visited the lonely crash site one night with my dad and Mr Jacques. Who by coincidence, worked in the forest where the plane had came down. The wreckage was completely overgrown at the time but Mr Jaques still managed to pull a twisted hoop of metal from out of the undergrowth. It was the toothed running track for the rear gun turret! He gave it to my Dad as a souvenir.  My dad treasured it for years but it sadly disappeared after he died. I have seen the posts on the other website by the French guy who is collecting items from the plane. I have also tried to contact him via the french site but it wont allow me to register my details for some reason in order to do so! Please do feel free to contact me if you know anything other about all this.   Best .. pete

Hi Anonymous
As I said it in my previous message, I am interested for scans of your Grandfather logbook, photos and more, looking to add several information in a large 514 Squadron database. You can let me a message in my Facebook page "Roger Guernon" and then I send you my email address.

You can also post your questions about S.S. Gill in Facebook page : 514 Squadron RAF

At the moment I have no many information for SS Gill. He was bomb aimer in R. Worthing (pilot) crew and flew apparently at 514 Squadron 20 operations from 23 December 1944 to the last on 14 March 1945. I can send you a spreasheet extract with all these ops including for each the names of crew members, the targets, etc. but for this crew some other data remains with empty cells. If you want that let me know your email address in my Facebook page.

Regards
Roger

Anonymous wrote:

---

Roger,

just had a look on Facebook and the only Roger Guernon, i could find mentions Nice, France, is that you? I will absolutely ensure you get copies of the documents I have. 

---

 Yes I am this one with mention Lycée Masséna Nice which it was my High School. But if large part of my family lives always at Nice or close to, since 1969 I live Choisel 35km SW from Paris.

514 Squadron Lancaster DS822 JI-T was shot down 10km from my home and I found and I met Australian and British relatives of the crew . I know also the story and I found several documents of the New Zealander hero Phil Lamason from another Squadron shot down the same day who was sheltered in a family near my village. Lamason lived in Dannevirke and died few years ago.

I don't know anything but I found

- in CWGC

McIver, Frederick Charles

Leading Aircraftman Service No: 1138209

Date of Death:18/06/1944

Age:35

Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 

2746 Sqdn., R.A.F. Regt.

Grave Reference: Sec. J. Grave 14.

Cemetery: BIRTLEY NEW CEMETERY

Additional Information: Son of Adam and Grace McIver, of Birtley; husband of Sarah Jane McIver, of Birtley.

- and in National Archives

For 2746 Sqn. archives see this link : http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7159254

Reference:	AIR 29/84
Description:	2746 Squadron RAF Regiment, Lossiemouth (UK); moved to Milltown 24 March 1943; became Anti-Aircraft squadron 17 May 1943; moved to Waterbeach 27 June 1943; at Little Staughton by 3 July 1944; moved to Minster on Sea 3 August 1944.
Date:	1942 Nov.-1944 Sept.
Held by:	The National Archives, Kew
Legal status:	Public Record

-- Edited by pinuche0706 on Tuesday 4th of November 2014 08:06:20 AM

Sorry Anonymous I don't understand very well your question. Do you speak about S.S. Gill Bomb aimer in R. Worthing crew? ((163638 (1676072) F/O Stanley Sanderson Gill)) or of another airman?

Lynne, maybe you know already. Birtley Constable's Garth memorial

-- Edited by pinuche0706 on Thursday 6th of August 2015 11:06:47 AM

Lynne,

 Your grandfather's death was recorded at St Neots, Huntingdonshire, so the accident would have been within that area. The closest airfields would have been RAF Little Stoughton, RAF Thurleigh, Tempsford, and Graveley. RAF Thurliegh was used by the USAAF so you can possibly rule that out. Have you requested a copy of his death certificate from the GRO, this should have the details on it

Alan.

jimlittlebear wrote:

---

My Great Uncle and all his Mates were shot down returning from a Night Raid on Stuttgart March 15/16 1944 they all Rest at VILLARS-LE-PAUTEL COMMUNAL CEMETERY; Haute-Saone, France
Grave Reference:
Joint grave 6.  They were Flying Lank LL653, I would Greatly Love a Photo of this Plane if anyone has one. My Mother remembers the Day Her Uncle Lawrence Wry left for the War,She was only 5 at the time. 

---

 

Hello,

Here are photographs of the three RCAF aboard LL653.

Also, some documents including one en francais.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Dave

Pete Cosgrove wrote:

---

Hi Jimlittlebear. Seems we have something in common with this my friend. My Uncle Sgt Gilbert Cosgrove was also part of that fateful crew that night. He was the onboard Flt engineer (RAF). He is buried in grave number 5, next to your kin. I was with my late father in the mid 1970's when we drove to France and visited the graves. It was a very very sad moment watching my dad in tears at his older brothers grave. He was only 12 years old when Gilbert was killed that night. It affected him deeply for the rest of his life.And It was the only visit he ever made to the grave. We also spent a few days in the village with a lovely couple (Maurice and Yvette Jacques) who had lived all their lives in Villars le pautel and who were both children at the time of the crash. My Mum had brought some old b/w photos taken just after the war. Showing my Grandma and Grandad greeting with the local townspeople. This was whilst on a visit to the Gilberts grave funded in England by the Salvation Army. Amazingly Mr and Mrs Jacques were both in the photos as children with their families! Even though they spoke no English and we spoke very little French, we still managed to find out quite a lot about what happened that night and the subsiquent military funeral that was given to the boys by the German army. I also remember that we visited the lonely crash site one night with my dad and Mr Jacques. Who by coincidence, worked in the forest where the plane had came down. The wreckage was completely overgrown at the time but Mr Jaques still managed to pull a twisted hoop of metal from out of the undergrowth. It was the toothed running track for the rear gun turret! He gave it to my Dad as a souvenir.  My dad treasured it for years but it sadly disappeared after he died. I have seen the posts on the other website by the French guy who is collecting items from the plane. I have also tried to contact him via the french site but it wont allow me to register my details for some reason in order to do so! Please do feel free to contact me if you know anything other about all this.   Best .. pete

---

 Hi Pete Cosgrove

For our archives, I am looking for information about Gilbert. Could you PM me a way or email address to contact you?

I joined 514 January 1945 to end of war.    If its any help I'm on internationalbcc.co.uk/memory/flt-lt-norman-james-eley-rafvr  with some photos.

You can contact me on   jim@robsack15.plus.com.         Norman (Jim) Eley

Hello Jim
here is Roger G. happy to hear again from you. It seems you changed the previous email address that I had since June 2014, so one email I sent you must not be delivered.
In few minutes I'll send it again.
Kind regards
Roger

Hi Jim
Thank you, you already responded to my email few days ago by sending me a page of the logbook and by confirming me your crew positions in the Squadron photo 1945.
Roger G....

Wendy, to whom do you ask to contact you?

Roger