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Post Info TOPIC: Newbie Just Arrived
IG


Aircraftsman 1st Class

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Newbie Just Arrived
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Hello Everyone,

I've just joined as a new member and I'm delighted to be amongst you. Many folks call me "IG" or "Iggy". Actually it's my initials but, over the years, the name stuck and I don't object if it helps to distinguish between several people with the same name.

The first question you may ask is "What do I bring to your table?" Well, I'm still finding my feet around the place but, from what I've seen so far, there may not be too much that I can bring. You already have some outstanding researchers who have amassed an amazing amount of data and contacts and I have to say that I am certainly in awe of their ability. However, I have a very narrowly defined area of interest that might just tweak their interest. So here goes...

On 18.10.44 3 Group sent 128 Lancasters from 9 Squadrons to Bonn. 14 Squadrons of fighter escorts and a Mosquito from 8 Group on a meteorological recce also took part. From that mission, two aircraft failed to return....a Lancaster, KO-U HK544 piloted by AusF/O Smith K.V.  from 115 Squadron and a Mustang IIIB from 129 Squadron flown by F/O Bertrand, J.N. RCAF who was captured at Driewegen, in the Netherlands, and spent the remainder of the war in Stalag Luft I Barth as Prisoner No. C21287. After take off nothing further was heard from HK544.

My initial area of interest was to find out everything possible about what happened to Lancaster HK544 and her crew. Many times I have heard the statement "What is so difficult about that? With over 200 aircraft flying in formation on a raid that lasted 6 minutes over target, surely somebody would have seen one disappear?"  We shall see!

First stop was the 115 Squadron Association. From there I wrote to several members who took part in the raid and even had lunch with one pilot who took off from RAF Witchford at exactly the same time as HK544. Each in their own way was as helpful as they could be. What really came home to me was that these boys were busy chaps up there and with a constant fear of collision, enemy fighters, being bombed by friendly aircraft from above, or flak from below, they were as concerned, if not more concerned, with staying alive themselves than looking out a window to see what their mates were doing.

Second stop was the Public Record Office (PRO) in 1980 and I went twice to see for myself. A totally fascinating experience if only I knew what I was doing and where to look for it! A PRO Researcher took pity on me and said she would search for me and send a report to my home. Surprisingly that is exactly what happened. The report was a revelation and must have took hours of her time to prepare. almost everything I needed to know about 115 Squadron's part in the mission except what happened to HK544. However, there was one small paragraph of hope in her report.....

"Southwest of Cologne, on return, two aircraft were seen 20 miles away apparently shot down by flak and it is possible this was the missing Lancaster. In the absence of definite evidence the cause remains uncertain."

However, after several readings I came up with a list of questions concerning this little gem.

1. Were the casualty aircraft 20 miles Southwest of Cologne when observed, or was the observer 20 miles Southwest of Cologne and the casualty aircraft within a 20 miles radius of that?

2. The weather on that trip was appalling (I now have the weather charts as issued to the crews). How did he see that far?

3. Did the casualty aircraft crash, or did they fly on after being hit?

4. Were they British aircraft? (More of this shortly.)

5. Who made this observation?

6. Was there really a sighting at all? I have in my possession a letter from the Australian Authorities to the effect that one of the relatives of a crew member from HK544 wrote to F/O Smith's relatives in Australia, to say that they had information that two members were seen to bale out of HK544. That leads me off on another journey of questions. Not least of which was there a ****-up at the debriefing when crews returned to station?

Sadly, the PRO's generosity did not extend to a second helping of their time. They simply did not respond to my letters and I am no longer able to get there and have a rummage for myself! However, rummage I shall with whatever means is available to me.

So where am I to date? Question 4 has taken a fair bit of my time. The Americans went to Cologne and Leverkusen on 18.10.44,  at about the same time as our lads and they lost 3 aircraft. Two went down in Belgium and the third crashed near the town of Buttinge, on the island of Walcheren, Netherland, killing all on board. And, co-incidentally, within 15 minutes of when several Dutch websites say HK544 went down and within about 2 kilometres. Really? How come the PRO did not say that about HK544?  Further investigation revealed why not.

Several Dutch websites have a report by a German Lookout stating that he saw a Lancaster crash in the water near Koudekerke, on Walcheren, at 1315 hours. Strangely all the websites say exactly the same thing at exactly the same time. They may be right, but if they are I need to explain why HK544 managed to fly 150 miles in 2 hours. That is slower than the aircraft can fly with the wheels and flaps down. Also I need to explain why HK544 was 70 miles north of its designated exit point from the European Continent, which was at Dunkirk.

As you can see, folks, after 40 years of searching I probably have more questions than answers. However, my interest has now extended from searching for one particular aircraft to the whole of that mission to Bonn. Currently I am searching German flak reports along the route that the aircraft took, to and from the target. I also have an enquiry line as to why nothing further was heard from HK544 after take-off.  I also want to research the other 3 Group Squadrons that took part on this mission, especially aircraft ID's and any debriefing notes made after return to station. I have a feeling I'm going to be a busy little boy.

Please share any info that you have with me if you wish. Obviously, I have abbreviated here much of the info that I have, but if anyone else is looking for something along the same lines as me, I shall be delighted to share my info with you and help where I can.

I hope that I have not bored anyone too much.

All the very best.

Kindest regards,

IG

 

 

 

 

 

7



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Air Vice Marshall

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Hi  IG  and welcome to the forum.

I don't know if the links below are of any use to you:-

 

http://www.lostaircraft.com/database.php?lang=en&mode=viewentry&e=4671#

http://wingstovictory.nl/database/database_detail-du.php?wtv_id=633

 

Mike.



-- Edited by MikeH on Sunday 2nd of November 2014 11:17:32 AM

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IG


Aircraftsman 1st Class

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Hello MikeH,

 

Thank you for your welcome and also the two links.

Yes I have visited both of those magnificent websites several times and also other websites in Netherlands.

The Dutch have been very helpful to me and their websites are a terrific tribute to our lads. However, all suffer from the same weakness for me with regard to the fate of HK 544. That is, they all draw their information from the one sighting by a German Lookout. He may have been correct, but..........

1. He may have mistook the American Liberator for a Lancaster...especially as the weather was appalling; both aircraft can have a fairly similar outline, e.g. a brief glimpse, bad weather etc.

2. The crash of the Liberator was very close to the time they said the Lancaster crashed.

3. In the German flak reports, there is a chronological entry for the Lancaster, but not one for the Liberator.

4. Why only a report from one Lookout? Surely the Germans had more than one on duty?

5. American investigations into the crash of their aircraft also throw up some anomalies.

This is why I am searching the German flak reports from other areas and also trying to get information from other Squadrons and aircraft that took part in the mission to Bonn. I also keep an eye on the Dutch news as the Schelde is regularly dredged and bombs and pieces of wreckage are frequently brought to the surface. Sports divers are another good source of information too.

However, thank you again for your welcome and interest.

Regards,

IG

 



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Aircraftsman 1st Class

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Hello gentlemen,

last weekend we found the crashsite from a Lancaster MK-1 in the area of Duisburg / Moers in germany.....

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IG


Aircraftsman 1st Class

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Good Morning Suman20,

That is fantastic news and extremely well done to you.

Do you have any further information concerning this aircraft as yet? I realise it is very early days but I do have a particular and personal interest in any downed Lancaster Mk1s in this general area.

Well done again.

 

IG



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Aircraftsman 1st Class

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HI IG...

 

 

This is amazing information and I would love to know more especially if you have a location where you have saved the documentation. I am also researching the same bomber crewHK 544 ko-u, where my Uncle was a radio officer Robert Russel Denholm. I am researching on behalf of my Step Father who was his brother. I have seen the same reports about the two parachutes and from the war memorial records seems it was slightly investigated then closed so they could issue the death certificates. Would love to get in contact so I can hear more about this wonderful reserch you have completed. 

 

Chris

 

 



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IG


Aircraftsman 1st Class

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Hi Chemma,

A Happy New Year to you and thank you for getting in touch. I am delighted to hear from you.

Just about all of my information is kept on hard copy as I am preparing a book of remembrance for the crew of KO-U. When finished, I shall gift the book to the 115 Squadron Association Display of Memorabilia at Witchford. As part of the book I was hoping to collect a photograph of each of the crew members, but at present, only have one of the Pilot and several of the Bomb Aimer. You are the first relative of the crew members that I have come across in all the years of my research. So I am especially pleased to hear from you.

It might be best if we correspond by PM's off this website as there is every chance of clogging up their system with information. Can you give me some idea as to what information you currently hold about the crew/mission/aircraft etc. and we could start from there. My private email is ivangrange41@gmail.com

Kindest regards,

IG

 

 



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